Penalty - Forget to summon Vampire Lord

[Chillout1984]

Hello, I have a question... I've searched the forum a couple of times with different key words, because I was sure I've read something about this before, but for some reason I can't find it anymore, so I ask it in a new thread.

What will be the penalty for the owner of Vampire Lord if he forgets to summon Vampire Lord when the opponent destroyed it by a card effect? I know that the opponent gets a warning, because he had to say it to the owner, but I don't know what the owner will get.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BenjaminMS]

Penalty? I think that he can't Special Summon it then anymore from the Graveyard for his effect. That the 'penalty' is that he won't revive anymore, unless it is later returned by Premature or such cards and, if he is later destroyed by an card effect of the opponent, he can Special Summon himself again. Just that, I think....

 

[masterwoo0]

It all depends on the game state. If it is possible to go back and return him to the field with minimal disruption, then nothing happens. Otherwise, it's a Warning to both players as both have the responsibility of watching the game, and catching misplays such as this. Vampire Lords effect is mandatory.

 

[squid]

Penalty? I think that he can't Special Summon it then anymore from the Graveyard for his effect. That the 'penalty' is that he won't revive anymore, unless it is later returned by Premature or such cards and, if he is later destroyed by an card effect of the opponent, he can Special Summon himself again. Just that, I think....

I know Masterwoo0 answered this, but its important to note that a player isn't just penalized by 'not' getting his monster back. A mandatory effect must be completed, whenever possible. The player doesn't just get the option.

What if, for example, VLord was in the Grave, and the owner forgot to Special Summon it? The opponent has a face down Bottomless Trap Hole, and also forgets to remind the other player about summoning his Vampire Lord.

If the player in question just happens topdeck MST and destroys BTH, then how happy do you think the opponent will be when the player suddenly remembers about his Vampire Lord?

Now, in that situation, the judge can probably just rewind the game back to the Standby Phase and force the owner to summon VLord before BTH is destroyed. Then things progress from there.

But what happens when it is 3 turns into the game when either player decides to notice this mistake? ugh.

That is where the warning comes in. Ive heard of judges handing out game losses for this kind of infraction, but I don't see how that is really fair to one player over another. Like masterwoo0 pointed out, it is both players responsibility to watch and maintain the game state in proper order.

 

[Jason_C]

I agree with mister calamari. Besides, what if you have five monsters on the field during your stadby phase? Then, it would be to your advantage to "forget" that V-lord needs to be summoned, cause you could then "remember" later, when there are less than five monsters.

-pssvr

 

[Dragon Reaver]

No, if I am correct, if during your stand by phase you have 5 mons on the field, you lose your chance to summon vlord, and he stays in the grave until another cards effect can bring him back.

 

[Lord Hades]

...Also remember that the best way get a good game, depends on both players so, if any of the two players remember to summon it it will stay there until a card effect can bring him back...

 

[Jason_C]

Dragon Reaver: Precisely what I was saying. If you try to summon V-lord with 5 mons, you'll have no room and he will die permanently. But if you "forget" and then remember later, you get away with bringing him back, once you have only 4 mons on the field

 

[Chillout1984]

Dragon Reaver: Precisely what I was saying. If you try to summon V-lord with 5 mons, you'll have no room and he will die permanently. But if you "forget" and then remember later, you get away with bringing him back, once you have only 4 mons on the field

No you don't.... You can't special summon him later, even if you "forgot" to summon him... (when there were 5 monsters in the beginning)

 

[Jason_C]

I'm nitpicking here, but that's just my habit. Of course you can't summon him later, but that won't stop you if your opponent didn't realize that there were five mons on the field when he originally should have been summoned. Now, your opponent ought to pay more attention than to let you bypass this, but if they did, no one would ever play "Question"

 

[Chillout1984]

I'm nitpicking here, but that's just my habit. Of course you can't summon him later, but that won't stop you if your opponent didn't realize that there were five mons on the field when he originally should have been summoned. Now, your opponent ought to pay more attention than to let you bypass this, but if they did, no one would ever play "Question"

Ofcourse it WILL stop you, because you can (and must) only special summon during your next standby phase... NOT in the main phase -_-'

 

[squid]

The problem comes in when this "forgetfulness" occurs, and one, if not both of the players involved are not familiar with the procedures for rewinding play.

I have heard people argue that: YES, I forgot to search with Sangan earlier. But its a mandatory effect, so I have to do it. So Ill do it now.

the other player will argue that its not fair because in the following Stage, they activated Mind Crush and should have gotten the opportunity to have chosen the monster searched out by Sangan. (And they would be right)

Same with Vampire Lord's summoning.

I think this is the point that pssvr was aiming at, plus the reason why rewinding the game state is necessary, in some cases, in order to ensure that effects that are mandatory, occur in the proper order.(in this example, that the summoning effect attempts to resolve properly, in the Standby Phase)

BUT, players should not attempt to rewind any play in the Game, without the supervision of a judge. That way the judge can observe exactly what plays had occurred and how far it is legal and permissable to re-start the action from. Especially in the matter of chaining and resolving effects, because those effects may alter how one, or another of the cards involved will resolve.

 

[Tonylaudat]

The only thing that I never understood is why a warning would be issued to both players. Personally, I don't think that it should be your opponet's responsability to remind you how your cards are supposed to work (which you should know anyway before playing them).

What happens if a player A losing, and decides that he/she is going to "forget" every mandatory monster effect (in effect forcing player B to remember both players' effects), hoping that a judge will issue a warning to both players, and them possibly issuing them both a game loss. Since player A has nothing to lose (or else he/she wouldn't be trying this), player B may now feel forced to look out for all of the card effects that his/her opponet might need to resolve (in order to avoid a game loss), in addition to his/her own. What if this causes player B to make a mistake that costs player B the game.

Personally, I think that each player should be responsible for their own card effect. I play in chess torunments, and if my opponet forgets to hit their clock, I'm under no obilgation to inform his/her. I believe that Yugioh should work the same way. If my opponet forgets about a monster effect, then either time should be rewound (if possible), or my opponet along should recieve a game loss. It is not my job to remind (or inform) my opponet of how his/her cards work.

 

[masterwoo0]

Remember, this game is supposed to be about "fair-play" and "good sportsmanship". What else could be a better case of Good Sportsmanship than reminding your opponent that he forgot to summon Vampire Lord during his Standby Phase?

I realize that no one wants to lose when they have an opportunity to play dumb, if it means they get to survive another turn. But really... Wouldn't YOU like it if your opponent reminded you that you forgot to resolve the effect of Dark Magician of Chaos, if it meant getting back Heavy Storm or Snatch Steal, or even Lightning Vortex?

The point is, it's really easy to be forgetful when you don't have a Bottomless Trap Hole set, and we suddenly have the memory of an Elephant when we do.

You dont warn "both" players, you risk things like that happening. I'm only going to remind you when it benefits ME, and when it doesnt, I'll play like I forgot as well.