Playing Megamorph before or after other ATK modifiers.

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Deathjester

New Member
If I play "Limiter Removal" and then "Megamorph" on a monster affected by it, "Megamorph" takes precedence. If vice versa, then "Limiter Removal" doubles the ATK that "Megamorph" makes.

Now I'm taking this to believe that if an ATK modifier that doesn't stay on the field is played (such as "Pyramid Energy") and "Megamorph" is played afterwards, "Megamorph"'s effect takes precedence and "Pyramid Energy"'s attack increase isn't re-calculated. Otherwise, if it's a modifier that stays on the field (Equip/Field Spell), then it's Megamorph plus the modifier regardless of the order they were played in.
 
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well i see it as if you chain them together seeing as Megamorph is an equip the monster will first increase 200, then the new number will double up or half according to your life points.

a 1300 will go to 1500 then 3000 or 750 (depending on life points.

if its later on in the game, then first you double Megamorph and add to the final number.

so 1300 would turn to 2600 which will then turn to 2800 if you add 200 more.

or it can easily drop to 650 plus the 200 wich makes it 850.

its not that difficult, its why you play other stuff before you do the other.

its like axe +axe+axe+ mega. you wouldnt want to play Megamorph first because from a 1300 it makes it 2600 (saying lp is lower) then adding 3 axes to that will make it 5600.

now to me that says your dumb for not playing your cards in order.

if you play them in an order were Megamorph is last you get an even higher attack. basically 1300 will turn to 4300 which will then turn to 8600.

why, because Megamorph looks at the new attack value not the written value.

after Megamorph is setteleded on a monster any new modifiers just get added on to it.

so once something doulbes you just add to that, if its 200 that you will add then it s 200, you wont add then recalculate Megamorph. thats straight up cheeting man.
 
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Fiendish Envoy said:
Isn't Pyramid Energy a one-shot modifier? Meaning that if you later activate Megamorph, Pyramid Energy would not be re-calculated?
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Anything that is plus or minus a set value is not reset by Megamorph.

If its not a set increase or decrease, then Megamorph resets it.

Pyramid Energy is a "+200" ; a set value, and cannot be changed by Megamorph.

@Krazykidspc:
No, Megamorph gets applied before other effects. It doesn't look at the new value, it looks at the original attack. Megamorph + Axe of Despair will always turn up the same value no matter what order you play them in.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Anything that is plus or minus a set value is not reset by Megamorph.

If its not a set increase or decrease, then Megamorph resets it.

Pyramid Energy is a "+200" ; a set value, and cannot be changed by Megamorph.

@Krazykidspc:
No, Megamorph gets applied before other effects. It doesn't look at the new value, it looks at the original attack. Megamorph + Axe of Despair will always turn up the same value no matter what order you play them in.
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Was there at one point an official ruling on this, or are you all going by a conclusion from a previous discussion?
 
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It's common sense. Megamorph says to double or halve the original ATK. Only after that do you apply all other effects (because they don't affect original ATK, only current ATK).

Pyramid Energy, although a Quick-Play Spell Card, leaves a lingering effect on all monsters present at the time of activation for the rest of the turn, which gives +200 ATK to each monster there.

If Uraby is in play, and then you activate Pyramid Energy, Uraby then has 1700 ATK. After that you play Megamorph on Uraby. Megamorph doubles or halves the original 1500 ATK (to 3000 or 750), and then the effect of Pyramid Energy adds on an extra 200 after that (making it 3200 or 950).

When recalculating the ATK of a monster, you check the original ATK of the monster (which could be modified by the likes of Fusilier Dragon, Megarock Dragon or Behemoth the King of All Animals) and then you apply Megamorph's effect. Only after that do you add on any extra effects (Equip Cards, Maha Vailo's effect, etc.).
 
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Maruno said:
It's common sense. Megamorph says to double or halve the original ATK. Only after that do you apply all other effects (because they don't affect original ATK, only current ATK).

Pyramid Energy, although a Quick-Play Spell Card, leaves a lingering effect on all monsters present at the time of activation for the rest of the turn, which gives +200 ATK to each monster there.

If Uraby is in play, and then you activate Pyramid Energy, Uraby then has 1700 ATK. After that you play Megamorph on Uraby. Megamorph doubles or halves the original 1500 ATK (to 3000 or 750), and then the effect of Pyramid Energy adds on an extra 200 after that (making it 3200 or 950).

When recalculating the ATK of a monster, you check the original ATK of the monster (which could be modified by the likes of Fusilier Dragon, Megarock Dragon or Behemoth the King of All Animals) and then you apply Megamorph's effect. Only after that do you add on any extra effects (Equip Cards, Maha Vailo's effect, etc.).
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You may think it is that easy, but it isn't. Common sense isn't the best way to tackle a card like Megamorph. I'll do some more research on this.
 
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Injection Fairy Lily has 400 ATK.
Shooting Star Bow - Ceal gives her 0 ATK (-600 ATK).
Injection Fairy Lily uses her effect to add 3000 ATK (-600+3000)= 2400.

Megamorph should not be compared to this situation because Megamorph works differently in that it has to go back a step in order to change the original ATK value.

Not to mention, a one-shot modifier (Injection Fairy Lily) is being added to a continuous modifier (Shooting Star Bow - Ceal). Whereas, in the situation in question, a [wacky] continuous modifier (Megamorph) is being added to a one-shot modifier (Pyramid Energy).
 
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Fiendish Envoy said:
Injection Fairy Lily has 400 ATK.
Shooting Star Bow - Ceal gives her 0 ATK (-600 ATK).
Injection Fairy Lily uses her effect to add 3000 ATK (-600+3000)= 2400.

Megamorph should not be compared to this situation because Megamorph works differently in that it has to go back a step in order to change the original ATK value.

Not to mention, a one-shot modifier (Injection Fairy Lily) is being added to a continuous modifier (Shooting Star Bow - Ceal). Whereas, in the situation in question, a [wacky] continuous modifier (Megamorph) is being added to a one-shot modifier (Pyramid Energy).
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It's really not so much about whether the effects are One-Shot or Continuous. That seems to be where your confusion lies. It's about what and how the effect is modifying.

You are creating a dependancy with Megamorph. All the normal ATK modifers will depend on the outcome of Megamorph, and then reapply themselves accordingly in timestamp order.

Think of it in terms of Shield & Sword, as MM works very similarily. Whenever you have an effect that alters the original ATK, you always apply that effect first, then you reapply simple ATK modifiers (increase or decrease) on top of that outcome. You would do this each and every time MM changes it's modifier (since it can either half or double dynamically).

Hope that helps
 
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novastar said:
It's really not so much about whether the effects are One-Shot or Continuous. That seems to be where your confusion lies. It's about what and how the effect is modifying.

You are creating a dependancy with Megamorph. All the normal ATK modifers will depend on the outcome of Megamorph, and then reapply themselves accordingly in timestamp order.

Think of it in terms of Shield & Sword, as MM works very similarily. Whenever you have an effect that alters the original ATK, you always apply that effect first, then you reapply simple ATK modifiers (increase or decrease) on top of that outcome. You would do this each and every time MM changes it's modifier (since it can either half or double dynamically).

Hope that helps
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I'm not sure if Shield and Sword serves as an Appropriate comparison because of these two rulings:

If "Shield & Sword" is activated, it reverses the original ATK & DEF of "Chaos Necromancer", which are both zero, then "Chaos Necromancer"'s effect is applied and his ATK will be 300 x the number of monsters in your Graveyard, and DEF zero.

If "Chaos Necromancer" is equipped with "Megamorph", its ATK is zero, but if "Megamorph" leaves play, recalculate the ATK of "Chaos Necromancer" using his effect.

Anyone care to send this to the Judges List? I would, but for some reason they still don't have me registered as a Level 1...
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Chaos Necromancer does not increase its ATK. SInce you have 2 effects trying to recalculate it Megamorph wins out, since it goes for original ATK.

Shield and Sword doesn't recalculate, but just switches 2 known values. So it cannot overpower Chaos Necromancer's effect.
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Shield and Sword changes Original ATK and Original DEF and then re-applies all modifiers.

Megamorph changes Original ATK, but does not re-apply Chaos Necromancer.

These two cards are functionally different as you mentioned, and shouldn't be compared.
 
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Fiendish Envoy said:
Shield and Sword changes Original ATK and Original DEF and then re-applies all modifiers.

Megamorph changes Original ATK, but does not re-apply Chaos Necromancer.

These two cards are functionally different as you mentioned, and shouldn't be compared.
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Says who?

You missed the point completely.

Both effects create a new baseline from which others simply pile on top of. That is as simple as it gets.

The difference in the rulings with Necromancer has to do with Necro's effect itself. In the example in this thread, we are dealing with simple increase and decrease modifier's which has nothing to do with Necro vs. MM.
 
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As said before, Megamorph looks at the original ATK. Not ATK after you calculate it for Axe of Despair. Not ATK after you play Reinforcements on it. Not ATK after Archfiend of Gilfer has its effect on that monster. Not ATK after Rush Recklessly is played on it. Before all that.

Megamorph itself says to alter the original ATK. I don't see why this is so difficult for people. Does something alter original ATK? No? Then ignore its effect when sorting out Megamorph.

As I can tell from looking through YVD, the only cards that affect original ATK and/or DEF are these (those in bold set the ATK/DEF, and those not in bold modify them) :

Adhesion Trap Hole
Amazoness Spellcaster
Behemoth the King of All Animals
Cat's Ear Tribe
Curse of Anubis
Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast
Karate Man
King of the Skull Servants
Lost Guardian
Megamorph
Megarock Dragon
Shield and Sword
Thousand Energy
Triangle Power

In addition, only the following cards are concerned with what the original ATK and/or DEF of a monster is:

Altar for Tribute
Ectoplasmer
Elemental Hero Flame Wingman
Elemental Hero Thunder Giant
Great Maju Garzett
Guardian Angel Joan
Inferno Fire Blast
Maju Garzett
Mirage Knight
Shinato, King of a Higher Plane

It's not a definitive list, of course, but it's what I could come up with in two minutes with YVD (such a great card catalogue it is).
 
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