Prime Material Dragon

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Oceanus

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It is ruled that "Rainbow Life" has no effect considering "Bad Reaction to Simochi" was active before it, thus leading to the thought that whichever is active first takes precedence.

With "Prime Material Dragon," must it also be first to be activate to beat out Simochi?
 
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[info]If "Level Limit - Area B" is activated while "Final Attack Orders" is active, then the most recently resolved effect takes precedence and monsters Level 4 or higher will be in Defense Position. [/info]Odd, it usually works the other way around - the card last activated is applied. Level Limit - Area B and Final Attack Orders is the classic example of this.

My guess is that Rainbow Life is a Normal Trap, and Simochi is a Continuous Trap which constantly reapplies its effect. When you activate Rainbow Life, it works for a second, but Simochi then jumps in and starts reapplying itself.

Prime Material Dragon is a Continuous Effect, so it would work the opposite way. Whichever card is on the field last has its effect applied.
 
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what also adds to the wierdness is Stumbling's ruling with FAO:

[info]• When "Stumbling" and "Final Attack Orders" are both active, a Summoned monster is changed to Defense Position, then changed to Attack Position.[/info]

and it doesn't matter what order they were activated.
 
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[info]The effect of "Stumbling" goes on a chain immediately after a monster is Summoned. As a mandatory Trigger Effect, "Stumbling" is always on the chain before optional Trigger Effects (“Mobius the Frost Monarch”) or chained Spell & Trap Cards (“Trap Hole”).[/info]That's because Stumbling uses a chain link.

Summon a monster. The mosnter is automatically changed to ATK position by Final Attack Orders. Stumbling triggers, and when it resolves it changes the monster to DEF position. After, Final Attack Orders switches it back.
 
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Entropy said:
[info]The effect of "Stumbling" goes on a chain immediately after a monster is Summoned. As a mandatory Trigger Effect, "Stumbling" is always on the chain before optional Trigger Effects (“Mobius the Frost Monarch”) or chained Spell & Trap Cards (“Trap Hole”).[/info]That's because Stumbling uses a chain link.

Summon a monster. The mosnter is automatically changed to ATK position by Final Attack Orders. Stumbling triggers, and when it resolves it changes the monster to DEF position. After, Final Attack Orders switches it back.
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Ah, thanks I see... although you're wrong in the first part that is bolded... FAO doesn't change it to ATK position initially... that's how it's summoned... i.e. via a game mechanic. :D
 
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Any effect that would inflict damage to a player instead increases their Life Points by the same amount.​

"A player" would be either player. It would say "the controller of this card/monster" otherwise.
 
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I see this as the same faux pas as Ultimate Offering when it first came out, and it had almost the same identical text, and we know what happened with that, dont we??!!!

Old Text
Ultimate Offering
Text
At the Cost of 500 life points per monster, a player is allowed a extra Normal Summon or Set.

Controversial Text
Prime Material Dragon
Text
Any effect that would inflict damage to a player instead increases their Life Points by the same amount.

New Text
Ultimate Offering
Text
By paying 500 life points, Normal Summon or Set 1 extra monster. You can only activate this effect during your Main Phase or your opponent's Battle Phase.


Notice any similarities between Prime Material Dragon's text, and Ultimate Offering's old text?? I smell an errata coming.....
 
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Yes, but the difference is that Ultimate Offering is an ancient card, and Prime Material Dragon is a brand new card. Back in the very old days, half-accurate wording was a bonus, but certainly not expected. Nowadays, though, card texts have been sorted out, and the cards are very specifically worded to spell out exactly what their effects are. There's even a difference between "cannot be Special Summoned except by" and "can only be Special Summoned by", two phrases which in regular English mean the same thing.

No, since Prime Material Dragon says "a player", it means "a player" and not "the controller". Otherwise it would say "the controller".

We're allowed to put some faith in the card texts nowadays, and accept them for what they actually say. ^_^
 
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Maruno said:
Yes, but the difference is that Ultimate Offering is an ancient card, and Prime Material Dragon is a brand new card. Back in the very old days, half-accurate wording was a bonus, but certainly not expected. Nowadays, though, card texts have been sorted out, and the cards are very specifically worded to spell out exactly what their effects are. There's even a difference between "cannot be Special Summoned except by" and "can only be Special Summoned by", two phrases which in regular English mean the same thing.

No, since Prime Material Dragon says "a player", it means "a player" and not "the controller". Otherwise it would say "the controller".

We're allowed to put some faith in the card texts nowadays, and accept them for what they actually say. ^_^
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"A player" could just as easily be "The Controller". If it doesnt say it, it doesnt mean it applies, and it doesnt mean that it would not apply. "A player" certainly isn't short for "both player's", and since it would more than likely only mean "one player", effects like Ring of Destruction would resolve, since it affects both players..
 
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Ultimate Offering was indeed a faux pas. But it wasn't meant to be a signal flare that all future usage was an additional faux pas. We weren't meant to hang on to it's misuse, it was an exception. No other instance of "a player", or similar, at that time meant the same thing as Ultimate Offering. Nor should any future usage of the word be indicative of the same mistake.
 
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A quick search gives several cards that use "a player" to mean "both players", and I'm sure that few of them are going to be errata'd.

Pandemonium
Neither player has to pay Life Points during the Standby Phase for Archfiend monsters. Each time a player's Archfiend Monster Card(s) are destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, except as a result of battle, that player can select 1 Archfiend Monster Card from his/her Deck that has a lower Level than the destroyed card and add it to his/her hand.

Greed
Each time a player draws cards because of a card effect, they take 500 damage during the End Phase for each card drawn by the card effect.

Chain Burst
Each time a player activates a Trap Card, they take 1000 damage immediately after it resolves.

Begone, Knave!
When a monster inflicts Battle Damage to a player, return the monster to its owner's hand.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
"A player" could just as easily be "The Controller". If it doesnt say it, it doesnt mean it applies, and it doesnt mean that it would not apply. "A player" certainly isn't short for "both player's", and since it would more than likely only mean "one player", effects like Ring of Destruction would resolve, since it affects both players..
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It says "a player" because there are plenty of effects that inflict damage to just one player. If it said "both players" it would imply it only works with effects such as Ring of Destruction that inflict damage to both players at the same time.

Your "just as easily" is entirely false. It means what it says, which is "a player".

Cards like Ring of Destruction would also turn into Life Point gains, because both players are taking damage, and each player is "a player". I can't see why it wouldn't work with Ring of Destruction (unless you wanted to delve deep into the wording and interpret things your way).
 
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Maruno said:
It says "a player" because there are plenty of effects that inflict damage to just one player. If it said "both players" it would imply it only works with effects such as Ring of Destruction that inflict damage to both players at the same time.

Your "just as easily" is entirely false. It means what it says, which is "a player".

Cards like Ring of Destruction would also turn into Life Point gains, because both players are taking damage, and each player is "a player". I can't see why it wouldn't work with Ring of Destruction (unless you wanted to delve deep into the wording and interpret things your way).
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Im not trying to interpret it any particular way. Neither side has any leverage. As far as Pandemonium goes, it clearly refers to either player, as well as it being a Field Spell Card, and only Field Spell Cards that have the restriction that it affects the Controller, are seen as "one way" effects, so that isnt much of a example of "a player".

The rest, of course standout as exceptions, but there is no rule to say that "a player" will always and forever be "both". Change is the only constant, and things could just as well change tomorrow.

Skill Drain
Really Eternal Rest
Apprentice Magician

Those were cards people would argue to death when they had their older rulings. We knew for sure things were as they had written down in the rulings. They changed. We gulped hard because that meant all those arguments were for naught, and all the combined knowledge of the people who argued for the rulings were wrong.

You can always stand firm to what is on paper now, but I wouldn't build a house on that ground, because until its made solid, its questionable.
 
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