Priority Again

Y

ygo doc

New Member
I almost forgot. One big question I got asked at the St. Louis SJC involved priority and there were several twists regarding priority.

As stated in the 6.0 version Rulebook:

* The Turn Player has priority to activate a card or effect first in each phase or step of their turn.
* After a card's activation, and at the end of each phase or step, Priority passes to the opponent.

Additionally, if the Turn Player successfully summons a monster or a chain ends in a successful summon of a monster for the Turn Player, he retains priority, but only to activate one of the following:

* A monster Ignition Effect on the Field.
* A spell speed 2 or higher effect.

Apparently, there are still a number of players that believe that once you special summon Cyber Dragon, you retain priority to tribute summon Jinzo or a Monarch before the opponent can respond. Summons have no spell speed, nor are they a card effect.

Once you successfully summon Cyber Dragon or any monster, you as the Turn Player retain the priority to activate an ignition effect on the Field or a spell speed 2 effect or higher. Yes, the opponent may respond with Bottomless Trap Hole or Torrential Tribute before you tribute summon Jinzo to the Field. You do NOT have priority to activate a spell speed 1 effect such as Monster Gate to tribute your Cyber Dragon off the Field, before the opponent can activate Ring of Destruction on it.


OK with the above said, how do you rule on these 2 scenarios:

The Turn Player is in Standby Phase and special summons his Treeborn Frog from the Graveyard. He activates Enemy Controller from his Hand and tributes the Frog to take control of his opponent's Elemental Hero Stratos. No action by opponent. Turn Player special summons his Treeborn Frog back to the Field. Turn Player asks the opponent if he wishes to respond. Opponent says "no". TP announces he is entering Main Phase 1.

Immediately after his announcement, Turn Player tributes the E-Hero Stratos to activate Monster Gate. The opponent says "wait a minute, I still have priority at the end of Standby Phase" and proceeds to activate Ring of Destruction on his own E-Hero Stratos controlled by the Turn Player. The Turn Player argues that he asked if the opponent wanted to respond at the end of Standby Phase and he said "no". Now the TP has priority in Main Phase 1 to activate Monster Gate and tribute the E-Hero before opponent can chain Ring of Destruction to destroy him. How do you rule here?

Next scenario: Turn Player activates Call of the Haunted during Standby Phase to bring back Sangan. Both players agree to enter Main Phase 1. Turn Player immediately tributes Sangan to bring out Jinzo. Opponent cries foul because he was never given the opportunity to activate his Ceasefire. Is this a legal play or not?

doc
 
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cuzwbd said:
so- it seems like this means the turn player can summon moby, choose to use his effect and declare target(s) and still retain priority to activate(in response to summon of moby) a set ring of destruction targeting opponents face up monster... then non turn player can respond to summon if he chooses/is able?
is there an article link with a discussion about trigger vs ignition?? both word definitions are so similar as far as english language is concerned - but not in yu gi oh game terminology....
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Since this was not addressed by anyone...

If you choose to activate the Optional Trigger Effect of your monster, then that uses up your Priority, just like a Mandatory Trigger does. If you choose not to activate the Optional Trigger, then you still retain Priority to respond to the Summon, like you would any other monster.

You DO NOT get to use both. The decision on whether or not to activate the Optional Trigger does not involve Priority, in any way, shape, form or fashion. Once that decision is made, then it affects Priority.
 
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I am having a very hard time finding any "official" information regarding Turn Player's Priority. I have read the section in the V06 rulebook pertaining to priority, but nowhere that I've seen does it state anything about Ignition Effects, Spell Speed 2 Effects, etc. (in the priority section). How exactly do these come in to play and where can I find the official rulings on it?
 
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As far as "Official" definitions abound. However, the Judge List, by which we discover many a ruling's truist form from UDE states the following in this post
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=8928#8928

regarding priority:
As turn turn player and assuming that I Normal Summoned Gemini Elf, would I retain
priority to activate "Poison of the Old Man"?

The same scenario but replacing "Poison of the Old Man" with "Ring of Destruction".

---------------------------------------------

You retain priority to activate an Ignition Effect or a Spell Speed 2 or greater Spell or Trap Card.

Those are both Spell Speed 2 or greater Spell or Trap Cards.


Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
Click to expand...
 
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"Officially" you won't find anything written down in this regard past what is in the Rulebook. Just the same as "Officially" the Damage Step information in the Rulebook doesn't contain an exact breakdown of when every little thing occurs (though it is a lot closer than the Priority section).

Priority has been one of those things that UDE has been trying to get ironed out with Konami. From what I heard from the 2006 Nationals or Worlds (I forget which) the judges were basically instructed about how to run Priority. So while you may not see much in writing (unless Curtis had answered a question about it on the judge list, though usually it was a "yes/no" kind of answer rather than a mechanical explaination), you can pretty much accept that if you summon a monster and nothing triggers as a result of said summon (no chain automatically activates), you retain Priority to activate an Ignition Effect, Spell Speed 2 Effect, or Spell Speed 3 effect.

This is just one of those catches when playing this game. You have to find out mechanics like this from the players and judges who have been involved for awhile.

P.S. In regards to the Judge list posting right before this post, you could also activate a Multi-Trigger effect (also a Speed 2 presuming the timing is correct. Strike Ninja for example would be a valid effect while Injection Fairy Lily wouldn't since her's can only be activated in the Damage Step).
 
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The reason I ask is because I would like to use this information to my advantage during duels. Not only this, but I don't want to be caught "red-handed" so to speak, not knowing a rule when I should.

Needless to say, there are quite a few other duelists out there who have absolutely no idea how priority works.

And with that in mind, if I were to attempt to take advantage of my priority using methods described on these forums (but not in the rulebook), and my opponent questions my reasoning...

Where do I send him?

I can't send him to the rulebook, because it doesn't explain everything in there.

I can't send him to the UDE site or RONIN because there's nothing listed (as far as I've seen) concerning priority.

I can't send him to this site, because there's know way he'll know it's official. And, no offense to all of you - I appreciate your efforts - but there are wildly varying views on this issue among several of the judges here. That doesn't look very good when I try to prove a point.

So... my only hope remaining is the head judge at my local card shop, who, unfortunately, doesn't "major" in Yu-Gi-Oh!, but rather Magic the Gathering? Why, just yesterday he was trying to tell my friend that he can't chain to his own cards.

I'm sure you can sense my frustration.

---

Another thing, slightly on-topic, pertains to the content of the quote that DLoC posted: "You retain priority to activate an Ignition Effect or a Spell Speed 2 or greater Spell or Trap Card."

Is there some rationale that dictates why a Normal Spell Card cannot be used? Ignition effects are Spell Speed 1, so what's wrong with a Spell Card?

All very frustrating and confusing. :(
 
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First, I must say that I am la little taken aback and somewhat appalled that you would Rules Lawyer your way to a more favorable position. It is the responsibility of each player, in fair play and sportsmanship to teach others less knowledgable about the mechanics of the game. It grieves me.

As for your question of Spell Speeds: Speed 2 & 3 are designed for chaining and responding to an action. Spell Speed 1 begins a chain, therefore nothing can come before it in it's activation. This is also why almost all Spell Speed 1 are only allowed during Main Phase 1 and 2.
 
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I do apologize for making it seem like I was trying to screw over my opponent by using mechanics they don't understand. That's not what I was going for. What I meant is that, if they THINK they do understand it, but are arguing with me as to who is correct, then there is simply nothing I can use to back my own arguments up. In reality I can do nothing except hope I can convince them, or leave it in the hands of a judge who may or may not know even the basics of the underlying mechanics.

And regarding the Spell Speed issue, I agree with everything you said in your previous post, however... I still don't understand what bars Normal Spells cards' activation, as opposed to an Ignition Effect, when priority is concerned.
 
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Honestly, call a judge over. They are SUPPOSED to know these Priority rulings. That Judge list posting is about all you will also find as far as the information being written down.

As for why you don't have Priority to activate a Normal Spell Card... the only "official" reason I can say is "Because Konami Said So". There is more to Priority than what we openly discuss. However, for the people that do know about it, we're not supposed to go into the specifics of it because it is one of those things that UDE and Konami are still clarifying and rather than confuse the issue more, that aspect of it is simply better off not getting into. (Again, this is akin to the extra Damage Step information that Kevin Tewart posted a long while back as "this is how it should be played but don't start reprinting this information".
 
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As far as Spell Speeds are concerned, you dealing with a genuine "Because Konami Says So" in this case. Although, when dealing with Priority, we aren't really dealing with anything different then your basic gameplay rules. (Why does the effect of card text override the game rules? Why do you only get one Normal Summon per turn? Why does a Tribute Summon count as your once-per-turn Normal Summon?) In other words, the rules, of both the game and priority, are sculpted to accomplish the ends of the game developers, not to follow any particular logic, but to set the groundwork for future logistics. The only difference is priority, for whatever reason, is having it's official documentation delayed. (For some years now, with no release on the horizon)

Why Konami or UDE are dragging their heels on the issue, no one really knows. There are a few aspects to the game like this (as DX points put above), and even so, we're still in the position in an official tournament situation to follow the published rules of priority, even though their supposedly not official yet. If you don't, then as you say, you end up in a situation where your caught with pants down, simply because you didn't know or know where to look.

Refer to the old Judges List http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/?forum=judge-yu and the new one they just instituted last month: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/op/community/forums/144/ShowForum.aspx for all the (as close as you'll get to being official) information on priority. You have to be a certified Judge to post there, but the info is open for all to search. The situation is, although there is no official published rulings on the matter, that judges are still required to follow this information in tournament and sanctioned events.

It's one of those things I like to refer to as "Unofficial, yet official". In other words, it doesn't have whatever stamp or label it's supposed to have to make it the final word on everything, but in reality, it's what they expect us to go by and enforce at an official event. I compare it to a Bill that hasn't yet passed into a Federal Law. It's not "officially" an enforceable law, yet the police are rounding up people or fining them for breaking it anyway. What can a person do but live his life in accordance with the "law" even though, technically, he isn't required to do so.
 
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