Pyramid of Light Question

[densetsu_x]

Pyramid of Light
Continuous Trap

If this face-up card is removed from your side of the field, destroy "Andro Sphinx" and "Sphinx Teleia" on your side of the field and remove them from play.

Would this effect activate either in the player's hand (say if the opponent played "Giant Trunade" or "Spiritualism") or the graveyard (if it was destroyed by "Mystical Space Typhoon" or sent there by "Emergency Provisions") or would it activate on the field? I'm personally thinking the effect would activate in hand/graveyard after it had left the field in which case the effect couldn't be negated by "Jinzo", "Royal Decree", "Seven Tools of the Bandit", etc.

Other thoughts?

- Andrew

 

[SynjoDeonecros]

There's no question about it. If Pyramid of Light is removed from the field, the sphinxs are destroyed. Doesn't matter how it's removed, or where it's headed, just so long as it's removed from the field. So, as soon as it is no longer on the field, it's effect activates.

 

[Maester Bacman]

I'm personally thinking the effect would activate in hand/graveyard after it had left the field in which case the effect couldn't be negated by "Jinzo", "Royal Decree", "Seven Tools of the Bandit", etc.

Other thoughts?

- Andrew

I don't know. I found this ruling of Big Bang Shot while looking for an answer:

When "Imperial Order" is active, and you destroy "Big Bang Shot" with "Dust Tornado", the effect of "Big Bang Shot" that would remove the monster from play is NOT applied.

The same thing happens with, for example, Premature Burial.

What would be the answer if Pyramid of Light is destroyed while Royal Decree is on the field?
If we conceive the "removed from your side of the field" as the "destroyed" of Big Bang Shot, then the Sphinxes couldn't be removed from play, assuming this logic. But, if that "removed from your side of the field" is like a "destroyed and sent to the graveyard", the monsters should be removed.

And, I haven't considered the case in which the Pyramid of Light is returned to the hand; the logic may be other.

Instead of providing an answer, I created more questions, jajajaja.

 

[densetsu_x]

Well, the analogy of "Big Bang Shot" and "Imperial Order" would seem to fit with "Pyramid of Light" and "Jinzo" / "Royal Decree" so based on that, the answer would be "no, 'Sphinx Teleia' and 'Andro Sphinx' would stay on the field".

Well, I was hoping to avoid this route (only cause a few things I've sent there seemed to have been "lost") but, I'll ask on the mailing list too.

- Andrew

 

[Maester Bacman]

Well, I was hoping to avoid this route (only cause a few things I've sent there seemed to have been "lost") but, I'll ask on the mailing list too.

My old question about Dark Magician of Chaos is "lost" too. I will try to post it this time directly in the page forums, not through e-mail, just in case, but it shouldn't even matter.

 

[densetsu_x]

Post the question here, or was it from that long debated "because Konami said so" thread about the wording to the DMoC's effect and that it's optional but the faq seems to imply it goes in its own chain, etc.

- A

 

[Maester Bacman]

Post the question here, or was it from that long debated "because Konami said so" thread about the wording to the DMoC's effect and that it's optional but the faq seems to imply it goes in its own chain, etc.

- A

Exactly. That thread. I wrote an e-mail in October 30 to the lists about that, but, as you said, it got "lost" or they have deleted it, either by mistake or because they are now :bishop: .

 

[Dlanaan]

I would be inclined to agree that Pyramid of Light would be negated by Royal Decree or Jinzo. This does fall into the same category (and even has the same condition) as Call of the Haunted. This is also similar to Big Bang Shot which is looking for itself to be removed from the field. These effects occur on the field itself (odd as it sounds) it would seem. I am not 100 percent certain on this as there may be some other condition that I am missing, but that is how I see it currently.

 

[krazykidpsx]

POL is on the field correct.

jinzo is on the field correct.

the sphynxs get summoned through their effects not POL.

POL gets removed period the effect of POL do not activate since Jinzo is on the field.

unlike Toon monsters were they destroy them selfs when TOon world gets destroyed.

this is an effect that is on POL not the sphynx.

so The effects of POL will be negated even when you play the giant trunade. because giant trunade doesnt change the fact that POL is being negated.

 

[Maester Bacman]

OK, then we can say, in the meanwhile, that these effects occur on the field itself and Jinzo and Royal Decree will negate them.
We have considered the case in which the card is just "destroyed" in the "removed from your side of the field" part.

The effects of POL will be negated even when you play the giant trunade. because giant trunade doesnt change the fact that POL is being negated.

Now, the case in which the card is returned to its owner's hand may be a different case. The effect of the card returned to its owner's hand shouldn't be negated if we assume that the effect gets activated in the hand or just outside of the field when returned. The logic behind that? Dark Magician of Chaos:

"When this card is destroyed or removed from the field, it is removed from play." The 3rd effect. Pretty clear, and good for the analogy.

"¢ When "Dark Magician of Chaos" is sent to your hand by "Penguin Soldier", it is removed from play instead. Good. But now:

"¢ While "Skill Drain" is active, the first and second effects of "Dark Magician of Chaos" are negated, but the 3rd effect is not negated.

Now we have found another confusion [geez, another one...].
Unless Skill Drain and Imperial Order have a different reach not known by me when it comes to negating effects in the field, the logic of a just "destroyed" "Dark Magician of Chaos" would prevent us from negating its effect, but if we don't have this ruling and we look the ruling of Big Bang Shot, the "destroyed" "Dark Magician of Chaos" should be sent to the Graveyard, ARGHHHH!!!

Anyway, avoiding the sudden confussion, if Jinzo or Royal Decree have the same reach as Skill Drain, and looking at the rulings of "Dark Magician of Chaos", it could be possible to say that a "Pyramid of Light" returned to its owner's hand would destroy "Andro Sphinx" and "Sphinx Teleia", even if Jinzo or Royal Decree are on the field, since the effect of this card seems to activate is effect outside of the field; in the hand, probably. What a mess.

 

[densetsu_x]

The ruling with "Dark Magician of Chaos" makes sense actually since summoning requirements are not negated by "Skill Drain" and with that, effects that have a monster direct where it goes when it leaves the field would also not be negated. The case of "Pyramid of Light" (to keep it somewhat on topic), with the whole effect negated completely I guess they view it as just a trap card with no text (aka "doing nothing") while "Jinzo"/"Royal Decree" is on the field.

- Andrew

 

[krazykidpsx]

lets say you actiavte royal decree and in the chain you activate Call of the Haunted to bring back lets say DMOC that you tossed out with Painfull choise.

You have a MST in your hand.

since 2 cards are being activated and the chain is resolving the Effects of DMOC get i belive skipped since its supposed to happen as soon as it gets summoned.

now once the chain finally resolves. call of the haunteds effects get negated.

you mst your call of the haunted, what will happen? DMOC will stay on the field since its effects have gotten negated.

or lets say DMOC gets killed, what happens to Call of the haunted, It stays on the field, because it no longer has the effect of when the monster gets destroyed it gets destroyed and vice versa.

so this way it would work the same.

see until POL gets removed from the field, it no longer contains effects.

by the time you get it to your hand, it had no effects to begin with. so how can an effect of a trap card be activated if it had no effects to beggin with? considering that whats in the field is JInzo and not Royal decree.

 

[Maester Bacman]

The ruling with "Dark Magician of Chaos" makes sense actually since summoning requirements are not negated by "Skill Drain" and with that, effects that have a monster direct where it goes when it leaves the field would also not be negated. The case of "Pyramid of Light" (to keep it somewhat on topic), with the whole effect negated completely I guess they view it as just a trap card with no text (aka "doing nothing") while "Jinzo"/"Royal Decree" is on the field.

- Andrew

Of course. "Skill Drain" doesn't look at not face-up cards on the field, leaving a difference in its reach and Imperial Order's reach where the negated cards don't have to be face-up on the field. I made a bad analogy using Skill Drain. Sorry about that.

OK, then, let's say during the time that if the face-up "Pyramid of Light" is removed from your side of the field [either returned to its owner's hand or just "destroyed"] while Jinzo or Royal Decree are on the field, "Andro Sphinx" and "Sphinx Teleia" are not destroyed, because the effect occurs on the field.

 

[krazykidpsx]

seems correct to me.

because currently in the field the card has no effect.

so how can a effectless card do anything to the field?

unless its a cost which its not, it cant get negated.

but since its not a cost, its an actual effect it is negated.

 

[SynjoDeonecros]

Pyramid of Light's effect of destroying the Sphinxes when it's removed from the field activates just like that, when it is removed from the field. Once it is outside of the playing field, the effect activates. Since it is no longer on the field, it cannot be affected by cards such as Imperial Order or Jinzo, since their effects only affect traps on the field. Hence, why cards like Dark Coffin aren't negated by by IO or Jinzo, because their effects activate outside of the field, away from the influence of IO/Jinzo's effects. It's also why Skill Drain can't negate the special summoning of cards like DMoC, since that special summoning requirement (even if considered an effect) must be completed before the monster hits the field, outside of Skill Drain's influence. It really is that simple.

 

[Dlanaan]

Skill Drain is NOT like Imperial Order or Jinzo. Skill Drain applies only to a very limited set of circumstances (monster is face-up on the field at the resolution of the effect). Imperial Order and Jinzo are a bit broader. They are able to negate effects that activate from leaving the field (Call of the Haunted vs. Jinzo is perhaps the best known). Effects that trigger upon a card being removed from the field are 'seen' to be activated on the field (sort of... I know it is weird, but that really is how it goes at the moment).

Dark Coffin is different than this. Dark Coffin specifically activates in the Graveyard. It does not activate when it is removed from the field (which occurs at a slightly different time). Graveyard effects cannot be touched by Jinzo, Imperial Order or Skill Drain. However, the effect of Pyramid of Light is not a Graveyard effect. It is a remove from field effect. It is different in that Jinzo and Imperial Order could negate something like this (a la Big Bang Shot, Call of the Haunted). But Skill Drain still cannot.

Based on the current rulings, if Pyramid of Light were to be removed from the field while an effect is actively negating it (Jinzo/Royal Decree), the effect is negated and the Sphinxes remain.