Question to Impenetrable Formation

[-Xe0-]

Hi folks,
So a new booster came up and brings some new questions. Here is one of them:
Can u select a face-down Monster for the effect of Impenetrable Formation ?
And what will happen if you select an face-up Monster and it is flipped face-down afterwards ?
thx for any reply
greetz
Xe0

 

[squid]

Do you mean when a monster is flipped face down due to a chained Book of Moon type effect, before Impenetrable Formation resolves? Or simply after "IF" has resolved its effect?

Either way, if the monster is face down, I dont think the effect stays around.
2 reasons.
1- its a Continuous Spell card. So, once the card is removed from the field, the effect stops
2- the text doesnt specify that the increase lasts till the end of the turn, like The Reliable Guardian Quickplay Spell.

BTW: the text for those who don't want to bother clicking the link , is:

Select 1 monster on your side of the field to activate this card. While you have 2 or more monsters on your side of the field, and all monsters on your side of the field are in Defense Position, increase the DEF of the selected monster by 700 points. When the selected monster is removed from the field, destroy this card

 

[skey23]

I don't believe it will make a difference. If you think about it.

There are only two limitations to this card effect.
1. There must be at least 2 monsters on your side of the field.
2. All monsters on your side of the field must be in defense position.

So if you were able to successfully apply the effect of this card to a monster, then it doesn't matter if that monster is flipped face-down at all. When/if it gets flipped back up, it's DEF will be increased by 700 again as long as "Impenetrable Formation" remains active on the field AND as long as the above 2 limitations are met. The only way I see to 'break' the connection between the two is to either remove the monster from the field, remove the "IF" card from the field, or bring out somebody like "SSLV7" or "Spell Canceller".

 

[squid]

1- its a Continuous Spell card. So, once the card is removed from the field, the effect stops

ugh. before someone else catches it, I just noticed that I switched from thinking about a monster being flipped face down, to thinking that "IF" was removed from the field.

=/

geez, Im tired.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Effects that modify the ATK or DEF cannot target a face-down monster.

 

[-Xe0-]

Effects that modify the ATK or DEF cannot target a face-down monster.

Jeah thx that what i though too.
But in the case that the monster is choosen as a target and Impenetrable Formation has resolved. Then one or more turns later the monster is flipped face-down and face-up again will the effect of Impenetrable Formation apply "again" ?
Imo no, cause the target is choosen at activation and never again. So if the monster is flipped face-down it will loose the boost and Impenetrable Formation will remain on the field meaningless.
Am i right with this ??
greetz
Xe0

 

[skey23]

I was foolishly 'linking' "Yellow Luster Shield" and "Impenetrable Formation" together for some odd reason. I forgot that "YLS" doesn't target and that's why it works..

Sorry!

 

[ancient_duelist]

Effects that modify the ATK or DEF cannot target a face-down monster.

I would have said you were right to say this, until today. Now I wonder . . .

The only activation requirement for Impenetrable Formation is for the player to "select 1 monster" on their side of the field. Could be face-up, could be face-down. The effect only becomes active when there are two or more monsters and all are in defense position. No mention of face-up or face-down.

Now, the new rulings kick in (on Monday).

The new ruling for Desert Sunlight says Book of Moon can target a face-down monster. Who would have thought it? It appears that the only requirement is an expectation that at some point the card will be face-up and at that time the effect will resolve. If Book of Moon can do it, why not Impenetrable Formation? Until I see something on the Judge's list, I think this is how I would rule it come Monday. (It'll be all right).

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Allright, perhaps it will be able to target a face-down card.
But:

If the target is in face-down defense position Book of Moon will resolve without effect because it can't do anything.

So then, if the target is face-down Impenetrable Formation will resolve without effect because it can't do anything, and then would remain on the field meaninglessly until the selected monster is removed from the field.

 

[novastar]

In terms of resolution that isn't correct.

Book of Moon is a One-Shot effect. Impenetrable Formation is a Continuous Effect.

We don't know for sure how this would work out until we get an official answer.

 

[ancient_duelist]

So then, if the target is face-down Impenetrable Formation will resolve without effect because it can't do anything, and then would remain on the field meaninglessly until the selected monster is removed from the field.

Like novastar said, Impenetrable Formation is continuous, so it seem to me it would just sit there watching the selected card and waiting to kick in. If/when the card comes into face-up defense position and there is at least one other defense position monster on it's side, the DEF goes up by 700. If/when it goes back face-down, Impenetrable Formation keeps waiting and watching to see if it come face-up again. I think the only way this ends is when the monster or Impenetrable Formation are removed from the field (or Spell Canceler, Imperial Order, etc. come to the field). But, also like novastar said, we really need to get an official ruling on this.

Now, what happens if the selected monster is Brain Jacked/Snatched? Does Impenetrable Formation look at the monsters on its side of the field or on the side the monster is now on to determine when to activate?

 

[skey23]

I would say it looks at the controller of "Impenetrable Formation"'s side of the field. So if the monster goes to the opponent, then it won't get the boosted DEF benefit no matter what.