Rainbow Veil

O

Oceanus

New Member
If you attack a "Dark Crusader" with "Rainbow Veil" equipped to your attacker, does Crusader lose its ATK increases?

If "D.D. Assailant" attacks "Dark Ruler Ha Des" equipped with "Rainbow Veil," will Veil apply until Assailant is considered "destroyed as a result of battle" (however still equipped with "Rainbow Veil"), therefore allowing it to not get negated long enough to remove Ha Des from play?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
[info]The effects of "Zombyra the Dark" are negated while "Skill Drain" is active, so "Zombyra the Dark" can attack your opponent directly, and its ATK is not decreased because of its effect. If "Skill Drain" is destroyed, "Zombyra the Dark"'s ATK is not changed.[/info]*shrugs*

Off the top of my head, I'd say that Dark Crusader is like Zombyra the Dark. When you negate his effect, he loses his ATK and it doesn't come back.

I can see the second one going either way. Probably, Ha Des's effect is negated when the monster is destroyed, so Ha Des's effect doesn't apply.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Rainbow Veil's effect to the equipped monster only lasts during the Battle Phase. Since Damage Calculation occurs during a Battle Phase, then the following would be true-

If Dark Ruler Ha Des is equipped with Rainbow Veil and D.D. Assailant or even D.D. Warrior Lady is destroyed in battle with Dark Ruler, then Ha Des is removed from play at the end of damage calculation as it's effect is being negated by Rainbow Veil.

With regard to the first instance- Dark Crusader would have to be equipped with Rainbow Veil in order to negate it's ability to pump up it's ATK. Again, the effect of Rainbow Veil only becomes active (it doesn't activate and as such, does not target) during the Battle Phase. Dark Crusader would still have it's increase in it's ATK during Main Phase 1 and 2 as long as it remained on the field and wasn't destroyed during the Battle Phase.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
HorusMaster said:
With regard to the first instance- Dark Crusader would have to be equipped with Rainbow Veil in order to negate it's ability to pump up it's ATK. Again, the effect of Rainbow Veil only becomes active (it doesn't activate and as such, does not target) during the Battle Phase. Dark Crusader would still have it's increase in it's ATK during Main Phase 1 and 2 as long as it remained on the field and wasn't destroyed during the Battle Phase.
Click to expand...
[info]Rainbow Veil
If the equipped monster battles an opponent's monster, while that monster is on the field its effect(s) is negated during the Battle Phase only.[/info]First, we equip a monster and then attak Dark Crusader. The equipped monster doesn't get his effect negated.

Second, Zombyra the Dark looks the same as Dark Crusader: both have a one-time chainable effect that produces a permanent modification to ATK. That is why I drew the parallel.

Third, I believe it means "during this battle phase only". As in, future battle phases don't apply. I could be wrong, though. If so, when he activates his effect again, then his ATK would still apply during the following Battle Phases.

We can agree that he's free to activate the effect again during subsequent Main Phases, no?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Entropy said:
[info]Rainbow Veil
If the equipped monster battles an opponent's monster, while that monster is on the field its effect(s) is negated during the Battle Phase only.[/info]First, we equip a monster and then attak Dark Crusader. The equipped monster doesn't get his effect negated.

Second, Zombyra the Dark looks the same as Dark Crusader: both have a one-time chainable effect that produces a permanent modification to ATK. That is why I drew the parallel.

Third, I believe it means "during this battle phase only". As in, future battle phases don't apply. I could be wrong, though. If so, when he activates his effect again, then his ATK would still apply during the following Battle Phases.

We can agree that he's free to activate the effect again during subsequent Main Phases, no?
Click to expand...

First, I stand corrected as I looked at the rulings wrong. If a monster is equipped with Rainbow Veil and it battles Ha Des, Ha Des' effect of negating effects of monsters destroyed by him is negated.

Second, Dark Crusader's effect of pumping it's ATK is a continous effect as long as there aren't any card effects that negate a monster's effect (Skill Drain and in this case, Rainbow Veil equipped to an opponent's battling monster).

Third, I believe that Rainbow Veil's effect is continous as stated in the rulings. It's doesn't activate, it just becomes active (ex. Jinzo's trap negating ability and Pulling the Rug response). Rainbow Veil becomes "active" during the Battle Phase only and isn't a "one-time" or "during this Battle Phase only" condition. It becomes "active" during this and subsequent Battle Phases as long as the equipped card remains on the field or isn't flipped face-down.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
HorusMaster said:
Second, Dark Crusader's effect of pumping it's ATK is a continous effect as long as there aren't any card effects that negate a monster's effect (Skill Drain and in this case, Rainbow Veil equipped to an opponent's battling monster).
Click to expand...
[info]“Dark Crusader's" effect is an Ignition Effect. Sending 1 DARK monster from your hand to the Graveyard is a cost.[/info]Official ruling. You activate the effect, and from then on it provides a continuous modification to ATK until Dark Crusader is removed from the field or flipped face-down.

Compare with Zombyra. The effect activates, and from then on it provides a continuous modification to ATK until Zombyra is removed from the field or flipped face-down.
Third, I believe that Rainbow Veil's effect is continous as stated in the rulings. It's doesn't activate, it just becomes active (ex. Jinzo's trap negating ability and Pulling the Rug response). Rainbow Veil becomes "active" during the Battle Phase only and isn't a "one-time" or "during this Battle Phase only" condition. It becomes "active" during this and subsequent Battle Phases as long as the equipped card remains on the field or isn't flipped face-down.
Click to expand...
I never said it used a chain. I didn't even say it triggers or activates. When I said "...when he activates the effect again..." I was referring to Dark Crusader's effect.

What makes you think it always applies? Is it that "...while that monster is on the field ..." line? To me, that line means Giant Rat will work, as stated in the ruling.

[info]If a monster affected by "Rainbow Veil" is not destroyed by the battle, its effects remain negated for the remainder of the Battle Phase.[/info]This ruling only mentions "...for the remainder of the Battle Phase.", which implies that it ends at that point.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sorry, I thought you were referring to Rainbow Veil's effect only lasting for the one Battle Phase. I didn't read into the fact you were referring to Dark Crusader's ATK boost being negated for just "this battle phase only".
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Not really. From my point of view:

* Rainbow Veil only lasts for this Battle Phase. Not future Battle Phases, unless the monster is attacked again.

* If Dark Crusader is affected by Rainbow Veil, Dark Crusader's ATK increase will be negated and will not return.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Entropy said:
Not really. From my point of view:

* Rainbow Veil only lasts for this Battle Phase. Not future Battle Phases, unless the monster is attacked again.

* If Dark Crusader is affected by Rainbow Veil, Dark Crusader's ATK increase will be negated and will not return.
Click to expand...

Rainbow Veil only lasts during the Battle Phase, period. If the monster that is equipped with Rainbow Veil attacks Dark Crusader during the next Battle Phase, it will negate Dark Crusader's effect. It will also negate the effects of other monsters that are attacked by the equipped monster during that Battle Phase. As long as the monster is equipped with Rainbow Veil, it will negate the effect of Dark Crusader for as many Battle Phases as Dark Crusader lasts on the field.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
"Rainbow Veil" logically should negate the monster's effect (as long as Veil and the attacked monster are still face-up) during each Battle Phase that monster participates in.

Another point, in the case of one time Ignitions that apply a one-time effect bonus, such will not return because of "Rainbow Veil." My evidence is a "Card Trooper" ruling:
Official Rulings said:
If "Skill Drain" is activated after "Card Trooper's" first effect has been activated, the increase in ATK will be negated. Even if "Skill Drain" leaves play, the increase in ATK will not return.
Click to expand...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Could you support that first claim with something? I've said the logic behind my position, and I'm waiting for the logic behind that position.
What makes you think it always applies? Is it that "...while that monster is on the field ..." line? To me, that line means Giant Rat will work, as stated in the ruling.

[info]If a monster affected by "Rainbow Veil" is not destroyed by the battle, its effects remain negated for the remainder of the Battle Phase.[/info]This ruling only mentions "...for the remainder of the Battle Phase.", which implies that it ends at that point.
Click to expand...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Oceanus said:
I'd rather support the idea that it negates only for one Battle Phase. The text specifies "The Battle Phase," and not, "Battle Phase(s)."
Click to expand...
Sorry, I thought you were agreeing with HorusMaster there.
Digital Jedi said:
You guys have lost me, what exactly is being questioned now?
Click to expand...
I think we settled Dark Crusader, and we're on Rainbow Veil. At least I hope so.

HorusMaster is saying that Rainbow Veil reapplies itself every battle phase to monsters previously attacked. Let's go with an example, using random monsters.

Player A controls Dark Crusader, Yubel, and Prime Material Dragon. Player B controls Neos equipped with Rainbow Veil.

Neos attacks Dark Crusader. Player A activates Waboku, and Dark Crusader survives.

On Player B's next turn, Player A controls the same monsters. Neos attacks Yubel. According to HorusMaster, during that Battle Phase, Rainbow Veil would negate Yubel (since it was attacked) and Dark Crusader (since it was attacked last turn).

On Player B's turn after that, Player A controls the same monsters again. (Somehow Yubel survived. How isn't important.) Neos attacks Prime Material Dragon. According to HorusMaster, during that Battle Phase, Rainbow Veil would negate Prime Material Dragon (since it was attacked), and Yubel (since it was attacked last turn) and Dark Crusader (since it was attacked on the previous turn).

Oceanus and I are saying that this is wrong, and Rainbow Veil only negates the monster being currently attacked.

At least, I think that's what we're talking about. :p
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
[info]If a monster affected by "Rainbow Veil" is not destroyed by the battle, its effects remain negated for the remainder of the Battle Phase.[/info]Ah, thanks for the breakdown. Somewhere I got lost.

I wouldn't think the intention of Rainbow Veil was to be that powerful. Besides, doesn't this ruling already cover that?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Facts to support my case of Rainbow Veil's effect becoming active multiple battle phases are in the rulings:
Per Netrep-
If a monster affected by "Rainbow Veil" is not destroyed by the battle, its effects remain negated for the remainder of the Battle Phase.
Where does it state "for one turn only...."
Dark Ruler Ha Des negates the effects of monsters destroyed in battle by Fiend-type monsters, including Ha Des. Since a monster is only destroyed in battle during the Battle phase, it can only negate these effects during the Battle Phase. If the player activates Waboku, wouldn't Ha Des negate the effect if it attacked the same monster next Battle Phase?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Since you only get one Battle Phase per turn, it wouldn't state "phases". If the effect became active during the Main Phase, then I would understand how phase would be interpreted as either Main 1 or Main 2 and not able to use the effect during both "phases". A player equips their monster with Rainbow Veil in Main Phase 1. They enter into their Battle Phase. The monster equipped with Rainbow Veil battles an effect monster, say Morphing Jar. The other player activates Waboku. Morphing Jar is flipped, it's effect negated but the card is not destroyed. During the End Phase, the player activates Book of Moon and flips Morphing Jar face down. During the players next turn, the monster equipped with Rainbow Veil has Rainbow Veil's effect become active during the Battle Phase. The player, again, attacks the facedown Morphing Jar. This is the second time the player has attacked Morphing Jar as it wasn't destroyed during the previous Battle Phase.
My understanding and belief in the effect of Rainbow Veil is that it again, will negate the effect of Morphing Jar when it is flipped face up during Damage Calculation. I am stating that the effect of Rainbow Veil when equipped to a monster, will become active during the Battle Phase (as stated in the rulings) and during every subsequent Battle Phase. If a monster that it battled a previous turn is still on the field when the attack is declared will have it's effect negated again. I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof that the effect of Rainbow Veil only becomes active one time only.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I get what your saying, I just don't get how your extrapolating it from the rulings. "For the remainder of the Battle Phase..." doesn't say anything more to me then, well, the remainder of the Battle Phase.

I would think if its intention was to extend beyond the initial BP, then the rulings would have used terminology like "subsequent Battle Phases" or something similar. But to suggest that with the current wording, in both the rulings and card text, seems like a stretch.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top