Registry Ruling about Phoenix and Silent Lv5

X

-Xe0-

New Member
HI guys,
i just read the rulings about the new FET-cards closely and im confused about two of them.
The first one goes to this ruling to "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys":
"If this card is destroyed by a card effect, Special Summon this card during your next Standby Phase. If you Special Summon this card successfully in this way, destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field."
The rulings classified this as a graveyard-effect like Vampire Lord or Mystic Tomato and cards like that. Im confused about that, because the rulings about Apprentice Magician (wich got the self Effect-text (timing)) says that such Effect are not graveyard-effects. The condition for the effect is only the destruction, not the graveyard.
The second one is the ruling about Silent Swordsman LV5 and Autonomous Action Unit:
"You can Special Summon "Silent Swordsman LV5" with "Autonomous Action Unit". If "Autonomous Action Unit" is removed from the field, "Silent Swordsman LV5" is unaffected and remains on the field."
That looks very confusing to me too. The effect of Silent Swordsman LV5 pervents him from being detroyed by my oppenents Spellcards, but at the time when Action Unit is destroyed its my spellcard that destroyes my own monster. Or is there something wrong ??
Thanks for reply
greetz
Xe0

Edit: Oh i found another confusing ruling about the Silent Swordsman LV5:
""Silent Swordsman LV5" is unaffected by Spell Cards your opponent controls, including those in your opponent's hand due to "Exchange" or "Graverobber"."
Why does Silent Swordsman LV5 gets its effect on the owners hand also. This is also a new fact. I thought the effect ist only activ when the card is face-up on the field.
 
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Guys, remember ... the Card Registry only uses the official rulings from the UDE site. If they sneak a change that we miss, please report that so we can change too. But we keep a pretty close tab on them and usually update Netrepâ„¢/RONINâ„¢ rulings within 24 hours of any official site changes.
 
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@masterwoo0:
All the rulings that you wrote speaks against your own quess. Everythink says that he is not protectet from spellcards of the controller not of the owner.
So i´ll try to go to more detail:
We got our situation like postet before, Player B got the "stolen" Swordsman and now AAU is destroyed. So the Chain will destroy AAU and immediatly after this the destroying effect triggers. Still on Player B´s side the Swordsman get destroyed. There no control-change at all. So its still Player B´s spellcards that destroy the Swordsman controlled by himself. After this effect is resolved, the swordsman is destroyed and his effect cant trigger in the graveyard.
So finally there is no space where the effect of the swordsman is able to protect him from being destroyed.
Please make a similar detailed answer so i may understand your arguments :)
greetz & thanks
Xe0

Edit: Also remember that theres a big difference between control and own a monster! In this case only the controller is important for the effect!
 
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Okay. I'll use the example of Snatch Steal.

Let's say "Skill Drain" is active. Silent Swordsman could be snatched, Now lets say you equipped "Axe of Despair" to him while he was under your control.

When Snatch Steal is destroyed, is control not switched back to the "Original" owner? Skill Drain also gets destroyed later by an effect. If the Original Owner is now in control of his monster, then all card effects would now Shift to affecting the "opponents" monster. Axe of Depair would then have no affect on him since he is no longer controlled by you.

In the case of Autonomous Action Unit, whatever monster you have control of is only by the effect of AAU. When it is destroyed or removed, you no longer have control and it is sent to the Graveyard.

Silent Swordsman first checks to see who is in control. You are not the controller because AAU is destroyed/removed. Since there is no controller, he cannot be affected by your Spell Card.
 
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Of course, in the case of Snatch Steal, gives you the ability to control 1 of your opponent's face-up monster as long the Snatch Steal remains equipped. This however can be compared to Autonomous Action Unit.

-When Snatch Steal is equipped to 1 of the opponent's monster, the monster is now under "your control" and is "currently under your control". Snatch Steal allows that.
-When Snatch Steal is later destroyed by an effect, that monster returns to the "original controller" who summoned it right?

Since you Special Summoned Silent Swordsman LV5 with Autonomous Action Unit from your opponent's graveyard, that makes you the "original controller"

Silent Swordsman Lv 5 will be destroyed by Autonomous Action Unit.
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
Since you Special Summoned Silent Swordsman LV5 with Autonomous Action Unit from your opponent's graveyard, that makes you the "original controller"

Silent Swordsman Lv 5 will be destroyed by Autonomous Action Unit.
Click to expand...
You cant be the original controller because that would mean that Compulsory Evacuation Device would send it back to your hand, and not your opponents.

Silent Swordsman's effect does not activate while in the Graveyard, so he doesnt care who pulls him out of it.

Once on the field, you are "only" the controller. You are not the original owner. If Remove Brainwashing was used, it would return him to the Original Owner, which again, cannot be you.

If the Match is over, and you cannot walk away with that card in your possession (morally wise, that is...), then you are not the Original Owner for game purposes and afterwards.

You are only the "Temporary Controller" whenever you pull cards from your opponents Graveyard or take a face-down Mataza, Blindly Loyal Goblin, or Horus LV4, by effect and flip it face-up.

As the temporary controller, you can only have possession of the card until it is removed from the field by whatever effect causes it. If it is removed from play and returns to the field, it will "temporarily" return to your side of the field, since you were its last controller, but realize you are not the original owner (controlling effect is reset and Disappears) and return to the Original Owner/controller, as long as there is room available.

If it is destroyed, it goes back to its Original Owners Graveyard, not yours.

Possession is 9/10 of the Law, but in Yugioh, its only as long as you can maintain it "during" the Game.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
You cant be the original controller because that would mean that Compulsory Evacuation Device would send it back to your hand, and not your opponents.

Silent Swordsman's effect does not activate while in the Graveyard, so he doesnt care who pulls him out of it.

Once on the field, you are "only" the controller. You are not the original owner. If Remove Brainwashing was used, it would return him to the Original Owner, which again, cannot be you.
Click to expand...

There's a key difference between "owner" and "original controller"

If I activated Creature Swap, and gained control of Archfiend Soldier, then later within the duel the opponent takes control of Archfiend Soldier with Change of Heart, Archfiend Soldier is then returned to my side of the field because I am the original controller due to Creature Swap.

Remove Brainwashing can be activated and my opponent could gain control of Archfiend Soldier once again because the opponent is the "owner" of the actual card.

The same would apply for Compulsory Evacuation Device, Penguin Soldier, Back to Square One, etc. because cards are sent to the "owner's" hand/deck.
 
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The "Original Controller" refers to the placement of a card due to an effect while the card is "present" on the field, not when it is taken from the Graveyard.

If I remove "Griggle" from my opponents Graveyard, placing him face-up attack, I am now the "controller" of Griggle. If I activate "Creature Swap", whatever monster, my opponent chooses to give me during the swap now becomes my newly controlled monster.

If I tribute that monster for say, "Mobius", then activate "Remove Brainwashing", Griggle would remain on my opponents side of the field because I am not the Original Owner, and regardless of whether I was the Original Controller due to Monster Reborn (which I again say that I am "just" the controller), I am not the Owner.

Using the "Original Controller" statement again, if I take my opponents FACE-UP monster with "Change of Heart", at the End Phase of that turn if I still have that card on my side of the field, control will revert back to the "Original Controller". In this instance, it has nothing to do with ownership.

In most cases, "owner" vs "controller", "owner" will take precedence.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
The "Original Controller" refers to the placement of a card due to an effect while the card is "present" on the field, not when it is taken from the Graveyard.
Click to expand...

The term "Original Controller" comes from lack of terms I can think of from my head. LoL. It's the best I could come up with. However... only half of that statement it correct. The incorrect half is this, "not when it is taken from the Graveyard."

masterwoo0 said:
If I remove "Griggle" from my opponents Graveyard, placing him face-up attack, I am now the "controller" of Griggle. If I activate "Creature Swap", whatever monster, my opponent chooses to give me during the swap now becomes my newly controlled monster.

If I tribute that monster for say, "Jinzo", then activate "Remove Brainwashing", Griggle would remain on my opponents side of the field because I am not the Original Owner, and regardless of whether I was the Original Controller due to Monster Reborn (which I again say that I am "just" the controller), I am not the Owner.
Click to expand...

This is where the flaw is located. Since you activated Creature Swap swapping Griggle back to the opponent, that makes the opponent now the infamous "Original Controller", so activating Remove Brainwashing has no use for 2 reasons...

1. Creature Swap alters the "original controller" of a monster card on the field. That's why Change of Heart would revert the monster back to the "original controller". So if you activate Creature Swap, giving your opponent Griggle, he/she is now the "original controller"
2. Your opponent owns the actual "Griggle" monster card, so it would return to the opponent's side of the field regardless.

Also, just for kicks, I have found another flaw in your example:

masterwoo0 said:
If I tribute that monster for say, "Jinzo", then activate "Remove Brainwashing"
Click to expand...

How can 1 activate Remove Brainwashing if Jinzo is on the field? lol
 
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masterwoo0 said:
The "Original Controller" refers to the placement of a card due to an effect while the card is "present" on the field, not when it is taken from the Graveyard.
Click to expand...

There's a flaw to that Reasoning.

If that were true, Remove Brainwashing wouldn't return cards to Player 1 even though Player 2 controls cards that Player 1 "owns" if for example Player 2 currently controls Reflect Bounder brought back to the field from Player 1's graveyard by Monster Reborn.
 
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Hi, i'm kinda confused about the issue, and here's another Question ... for cards like Fairy Meteor Crush
"¢ If you equip your "Fairy Meteor Crush" to an opponent's monster, and it attacks a Defense Position monster on your side of the field with ATK greater than your monster's DEF, the opponent will take the difference as Battle Damage. This is because "your opponent" is the opponent of the player who controls "Fairy Meteor Crush" not necessarily the opponent of the player who controls the monster.

it seems to me the card text with 'your opponent' means the owner's opponent? shouldn't this apply to Silent Swordsman LV5 as well?
 
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Ohh nice theme i startet here i see :)

@topic:
"Your opponent" means in every case, the Player whos the opponent of the controller of a card.
If a monster taken by Monster Reborn, Change of Heart or anythink else is detroyed it never hit the field on his owner side. The monster will go straight to the graveyard. There is no control-change after all.
An so the Lv5 have to be destroyed!!!
greetz
Xe0
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
There's a flaw to that Reasoning.

If that were true, Remove Brainwashing wouldn't return cards to Player 1 even though Player 2 controls cards that Player 1 "owns" if for example Player 2 currently controls Reflect Bounder brought back to the field from Player 1's graveyard by Monster Reborn.
Click to expand...
Remove Brainwashing
If "Monster Reborn" is activated and "Remove Brainwashing" is chained (or was already active on the field), the monster goes to the side of the field of the player who activated "Monster Reborn", then switches back to the original owner immediately afterwards.
 
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