Ring of Destruction vs. Bottomless Trap Hole

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Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
Turn Player summons a Gemini Elf onto the field. Turn Player activates Ring of Destruction due to priority to destroy Gemini Elf knowing Player B has only 100 life points. Player B activates Bottomless Trap Hole.


Last time I checked Bottomless Trap Hole could only be activated in a response to a summoning. If Ring of Destruction is activated due to the fact Turn Player has priority to activate Spell Speed 2 cards from hand or on the field before opponent can activate cards, this means Bottomless Trap Hole wouldn't be activating in response to a summoning but would be placed in an illegal chain with Ring of Destruction.

This is just from thinking about it for a while that I've concluded that. Now if someone could please tell me what's wrong with the above situation? I feel as if Bottomless Trap Hole can't be activated because it's a non-chainable card.
 
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Well first of all, you cant chain Bottomless Trap Hole to your own monster summon, and secondly, you cant chain Bottomless Trap Hole anyway since it would be in response to Ring of Destruction.

EDIT: Read the post wrong. Disregard everything from "Well first of all" to "own monster summon"... ^_^;;

But yeah, Player B can't activate Bottomless Trap Hole in response to Ring of Destruction, though Player B had the chance to activate it before Ring of Destruction could be activated. Trap cards don't use priority, only monsters. (right?)
 
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I know John Danker caue I met him in person. xD He has helped me more than anyone on this site. The other one has been teaching me mechanics on AIM. XD
 
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chaos general said:
But yeah, Player B can't activate Bottomless Trap Hole in response to Ring of Destruction, though Player B had the chance to activate it before Ring of Destruction could be activated. Trap cards don't use priority, only monsters. (right?)
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When turn player summoned they retained priority, at this point the turn player could activate an ignition effect monster's effect if they had one face up on the field, or they could activate a spell speed 2 or higher spell or trap card effect (Ring of Desstruction) before non-turn player would be able to respond.

Non-turn player then may chain to Ring of Destruction (and this is non-turn player's first chance to respond to the summon) and since the last thing to happen (remember Ring of Destruction has not resolved yet) was the summon of the monster BTH's timing is correct.
 
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John Danker said:
When turn player summoned they retained priority, at this point the turn player could activate an ignition effect monster's effect if they had one face up on the field, or they could activate a spell speed 2 or higher spell or trap card effect before non-turn player would be able to respond...which...in your example was Ring of Destruction.

Non-turn player then may chain to Ring of Destruction (and this is non-turn player's first chance to respond to the summon) and since the last thing to happen (remember Ring of Destruction has not resolved yet) was the summon of the monster BTH's timing is correct.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, you're saying that no matter what Bottomless Trap Hole's activation will still be correct even if Turn Player activated Ring of Destruction? That makes no sense because Bottomless Trap Hole isn't a chainable card.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Wait a minute, you're saying that no matter what Bottomless Trap Hole's activation will still be correct even if Turn Player activated Ring of Destruction? That makes no sense because Bottomless Trap Hole isn't a chainable card.
Click to expand...


Look at the rulings for BTH

"This card can only be activated when the last thing that resolved in the Duel was the opponent Normal/Flip/Special Summoning a monster(s). It cannot be activated at any other time."

In your example what was the last thing to resolve? The summon of the monster. Ring of Destruction hasn't yet resolved. Who says BTH is not a chainable card?
 
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I don't get it either... And I didn't know that you could use "priority" to activate your own cards even though your opponent is supposed to be able to respond immediately... Not that I'm arguing, but I need a better explanation as to why this is able to happen...
 
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Bottomeless is a Spell Speed 2, so it has the capability of both responding and chaining. Only Counter Traps have to directly precede the action or card that they counter.

This is all about Response Chains and proper timing.

All Bottomless Trap Hole requires is a Summon Response Chain, and you can activate it at any time during that chain, either directly after the summon or in chain with another effect.

Do you need more?
 
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chaos general said:
I don't get it either... And I didn't know that you could use "priority" to activate your own cards even though your opponent is supposed to be able to respond immediately... Not that I'm arguing, but I need a better explanation as to why this is able to happen...
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Here is the main thing to remember, the entire chain is in response to the summon event that just occured.

So, it doesn't matter where along the chain the effect is activated, it can still be activated using the timing created by the event that started the chain point (the summon)

All Priority does is give the Turn Player first rights to add an effect to a Response Chain... or any chain for that matter.

Better?
 
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I understand it. The reason I was wrong is because a summoning is the last thing happening in this situation. This means that Bottomless Trap Hole being Spell Speed 2 can be activated in a chain with Ring of Destruction because the last thing that's being done is a summoning.

So it would look like this in a way.

Link 1: Ring of Destruction
Link 2: Bottomless Trap Hole

Reserse that.

Link 2: Bottomless Trap Hole
Link 1: Ring of Destruction.

I should have done that method a lot sooner and I wouldn't have had to ask this. xD

So Bottomless owns the monster and Ring of Destruction's effect Disappears because in this example Player B has no monster.
 
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novastar said:
Here is the main thing to remember, the entire chain is in response to the summon event that just occured.

So, it doesn't matter where along the chain the effect is activated, it can still be activated using the timing created by the event that started the chain point (the summon)

All Priority does is give the Turn Player first rights to add an effect to a Response Chain... or any chain for that matter.

Better?
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed. So its only counter-trap cards that need to be activated before their respective countered... thing?
 
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John Danker said:
Look at the rulings for BTH

"This card can only be activated when the last thing that resolved in the Duel was the opponent Normal/Flip/Special Summoning a monster(s). It cannot be activated at any other time."

In your example what was the last thing to resolve? The summon of the monster. Ring of Destruction hasn't yet resolved. Who says BTH is not a chainable card?
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This is true not just with summons. Another area of problem/confusion, that i want Kevin to officially address, is both the Draw Response Chain and the Attack Response Chain. We have beaten the Summon Response Chain to death so we know the process there.

I had a perfect example yesturday.

[Event] Turn Player declares and attack with Enraged Battle Ox

{Attack Response Chain}
* Turn Player should recieve priority

TP Pass
OP Pass

Now at this point he tried to play Book of Moon

[TP Chain Link 1] Book of Moon

Which is incorrect, and mechanically flawed. I was the opponent (defending player) and he was trying to bait out my Magic/Trap before he would commit to using Book.

I had to explain to him, that he had to activate Book prior to passing to me, otherwise, once i pass we move to the Damage Step, and Book cannot be activated.

I would really like UDE to officially address this, as well as the Draw Response.
 
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