Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys

C

Cyber twin king

New Member
all the guys at my local are against me, except one person.

1: i play torrential on sacred phoenix
2: he ends his turn
3: i play prohibition, calling sacred phoenix.


the question: can he bring SPON back?

please help.
 
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good. i lost a game over this crap. a level 2 judge said he could.

EDIT: found a ruling on D.D. Scout Plane that is sorta like this

If prohibition was used and "D.D. Scout Plane" is prohibited, "D.D. Scout Plane" cannot be Special Summoned and remains removed from play.

i couldnt find any rulings on SPoN but i found this.
 
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hi B - wondered if id see this tonight, if not i was gonna post- new ones really pique my interest...who was lv2 judge?...
i know we talked about it later - after the fact- i did not know ruling, but wrongly thought it would not work - i was thinking since the player wasnt bringing spon back( it was spl summoned by its own resolving effect) it would not be "prohibited" - but in looking at the rulings on Netrepâ„¢ - i see an approximate parellel with d d scoutplane and would say you were right....the wording got me- "played" - guess i was thinking along the lines of chain energy- pay to play....sorry i wasn't more help :huh
hymmm - if prohibition is used declaring demise - can advanced ritual art be activated with demise as a target?it would be spl summoned by ara resolving, rather than 'directly' by player...interesting - like tp know how it works - guess i'm still grappling with "played"
i know - just declare ara...dosent help with the understanding tho' ;)
 
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cuzwbd said:
hymmm - if prohibition is used declaring demise - can advanced ritual art be activated with demise as a target?
Click to expand...
Yes, this is a legal play. You are not 'playing' "Demise" in this case, you are 'playing' "Advanced Ritual Art".

Keep in mind, though, that once "Demise" is Special Summoned, he cannot attack, change battle position OR use it's effect. It is merely a 'shell' of a monster basically.
 
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Are you sure about that skey? I thought that "playing" a card was interpruted as playing it to the field or graveyard...placing it in other words.

I could be mistaken on this, if you have evidence contrary to my thought pattern by all means please point me toward it.
 
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This is just my thought on the topic: If we examine the written effect of Prohibition, which basically outlines that a certain card with a designated card name cannot be played, we must ask the question: What about cards summoned by the effect of other cards? For example, can the summoning of SPON via the effect of Hand of Nephthys be called playing SPON? Similarly, do you actually play Demise when you Ritual Summon it? I'm not quite sure that i agree with your point skey23, it seems kinda farfetched. Remember that these are just my thoughts and that i just wanted to contribute for the better, i am waiting to take the UDE judge exam.
 
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Cyber twin king said:
all the guys at my local are against me, except one person.

1: i play torrential on sacred phoenix
2: he ends his turn
3: i play prohibition, calling sacred phoenix.


the question: can he bring SPON back?

please help.
Click to expand...

As stated, I do not believe he can. Another point, Kuriboh. You can not activate it's effect from the hand.

As for Advanced Rit Art, I think you could NOT "pick" a prohibited card; because it would 'fizzle' since the card could not be 'played'. HOWEVER, This would bring up the question that if you could not complete an effect, can you even activate the effect! As such, can you CotH a prohibited card? This is why I do not think you could activate ARA and target a Prohibited card.

Anything else Guys? This would be a great debate for the LV 3's!
 
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As for Advanced Rit Art, I think you could NOT "pick" a prohibited card
Click to expand...

My way of thought precisely.


From my understanding take Premature Burial for instance, you cannot select any monster that has been Prohibited.
 
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Wasn't there a Judges List message somewhere that effectively said a "Prohibited" card was effectively "untouchable" in any manner that meant utilizing it's effect or intent? Or have I simply had to much Chablis? :drunk
 
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Yes there was a link (explicitly about Premature), but it seems to have dissapeared........

*****bites his nails in terror******
 
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an interesting thread for sure....
what i thought it hinged upon was "played" and what the game considers played.... the only time for me that came up was in talking to a judge a yr or more back about chain energy and the "pay to play" concept...which was from "hand to field" - even if set or "to choose to use" as in hand to grave kuriboh or optional effects that say "you can..." not all of which pertained to chain energy...
so i was thinking that spon does not say "if-you can" for the spl summon- so i thought it was mandatory - player had no choice...if conditions right it will spl summon its self... which caused me to think since the player wasnt playing it it (prohibition) wouldnt work, but i wasnt sure at all, so first thing i did @ home was read Netrepâ„¢ rulings for prohibition (dd scoutplane also didnt say "if-you can" ) so i assumed that ruling was similar enough to apply to spon....or is it? the concept of another effect (rather than the player) putting "prohibited" card into play is interesting....especially if it is indeed an "empty shell" which bring up more questions...attacked? tributable? etc
what happens if opponent has prohibition active and bait dolls call of haunted with prohibited monster as only target for call? controller of prohibition forces activation... hmmm ... not resolution... curiouser & curiouser... interesting ....hope this thread plays out to completion...all this also has me wondering if a prohibited monster can be set.....
 
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My understanding of the word "play" is to place, in other words to physically move to the field by any means or to activate it's effect from the hand (Such as with Kuriboh or Thunder Dragon)

The D.D. Scout Plane ruling identified earlier in this thread seems to support that thought pattern and I don't see the opening post scenario being any different than it.

Re: D.D. Scout Plane] If "Prohibition" was used and "D.D. Scout Plane" is prohibited, "D.D. Scout Plane" cannot be Special Summoned and remains removed from play.

Weather the card is "played" directly from the hand or is "played" to the field via the means of another card effect (such as with Advanced Ritual Art) is, in my mind, still being "played" to the field. As I said, if someone has evidence to show otherwise please point me toward that FAQ or judge list post.
 
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slither said:
Yes there was a link (explicitly about Premature), but it seems to have dissapeared........

*****bites his nails in terror******
Click to expand...
Indeed, there used to be a Judge List post that supported my answer above. I'll have to check my email at home later to see if I can find it in my archives.
 
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Speaking with a few people that have been around a while I was told that the post that DJ was refering to may have been on the (very) old Yahoo Demo Team Leaders forum. I've long since forgotten my Yahoo account information and couldn't access it....and that info. is ancient as well and I wouldn't use it as set in stone reference at this point.

I've posted the question to the new judge list, we can only hope they'll see fit to answer it soon.

What I was ultimately shooting for in the question I posed was a definition of the term "played"
 
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Chatting in IM with skey this morning he dug up the ruling for....

Cold Wave

Text
This card can only be activated at the start of Main Phase 1. Until your next turn, neither player can play or Set any Spell or Trap Cards.

Rulings
[Re: Destiny Board] "Cold Wave" will prevent the effect of "Destiny Board" to bring a Spirit Message to the field for the turn "Cold Wave" is activated.

This is the best evidence we have so far on the topic. If you're playing Prohibition you might want to reference this to the judge staff.
 
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I revied the following reply back after asking the question on the new judge list....

Your post was deleted by 725.

Subject: Prohibition

Reason: Your question is pending on the list and will be answered when a ruling is issued by Konami.

Thanks,

Organized Play Forums team
 
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John Danker said:
I revied the following reply back after asking the question on the new judge list....

Your post was deleted by 725.

Subject: Prohibition

Reason: Your question is pending on the list and will be answered when a ruling is issued by Konami.

Thanks,

Organized Play Forums team
Click to expand...

That answered all our questions lol.
 
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