scapegoat

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"The tokens cannot be used as a Tribute for a Tribute Summon."

Fortunately, yes you can indeed use a "sheep token" for a Tribute Set. The only restriction is on Tribute Summons specifically.
 
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chenw said:
so i can go play scapegoat, then tribute set for sphinx on the same turn?
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Yes

The conditions for Scapegoat are:

- You cannot Summon (Normal, Flip, Special) any other monster during the same turn before or after
- You cannot use the tokens for Trbute Summons

That's it... everything else is legal.
 
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novastar said:
"The tokens cannot be used as a Tribute for a Tribute Summon."

Fortunately, yes you can indeed use a "sheep token" for a Tribute Set. The only restriction is on Tribute Summons specifically.
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I'm pretty certain this is wrong cause every judge has told me that Scapegoats can't be used for a Tribute to Tribute Summon or Set a monster (that would be way too broken). I know there's nothing stopping you from Setting a monster during the turn you use Scapegoat, but this just doesn't seem right.

- A
 
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Phew... this took some major digging, but this question was asked on the mailing list a few months ago:

From: "zombob2000" <innovationgaming@c...>
Date: Wed May 5, 2004 2:30 am
Subject: Re: "Tributing" Scapegoat Tokens....

Seeing as Tribute Summon and Tribute Set have been identified as two
separate actions, is it possible to use a Sheep Token for a Tribute
Set?


Answer:

Sheep Tokens cannot be offered as a Tribute for the Set of a high level monster.
---------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrep
CurtisSchultz_Netrep@h...

So, no you can't.

- A
 
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I think the misunderstanding on this is based on the Stray Lambs tokens. Stray Lambs tokens are tributable however the restriction when you bring out the tokens is that you can't Normal Summon, Flip Summon or Special Summon that round. The loophole to that is that you can Set or Tribute Set so you can get the 2 lamb tokens and tribute one of them for a Tribute Set. Scapegoat tokens can not be used for Tribute Summoning (whether summon or set). Goat tokens can be used as tributes for effects such as Cannon Soldier and for Special Summons such as high level Toon Monsters or Ritual Monsters.
 
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My mistake, i was under the impression that you could.

The misunderstanding clearly comes from the fact that it specifically states "Tribute Summon" as opposed to "Tribute Summon or Set"

However, the text overall on Scapegoat is misleading, so i'm not surprised.

Sorry chen... brain fart on my part.  :?
 
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this is one thing you can do with your little sheep's!! :wink:

"¢ You may offer Sheep Tokens as Tributes for Toon Monsters, since they are Special Summoned and not Tribute Summon.

But no,, you can't in any case Tribute or Tribute set any monster with high level..But yeah that is my statement..hahahahaha :evil:
 
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I thought that all summons/sets that are not special,fusion,ritual,flip are classed as normal summons. i.e.

Normal summons includes:
1. Face up summons
2. Face down summons (set)
3. Tributes Summons (which include)
3a. Face up tribute summon
3b. Face down tribute summon (tribute set)

If I am correct you wouldn't be able to set monsters during the same turn scapegoat was played.

So have I been playing this wrong all the time?
 
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you can Set monsters during the same turn Scapegoat was activated, but it will use your "summon" for the turn.

the summon portion on scapegoat's effect only refers to the effect monsters being Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned (not flipped face up due to an effect), or Special Summoned (period.... even Special Summoning a monster face down)
 
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This confusion comes from the translation from Japanese. The term Normal Summon is used in english to refer to your one summon or set for the round. Summon on Scapegoat refers to a face up summon to attack position whether it is Normal, Flip or Special. Another example of how a more thorough look at definitions and wording on cards before printing them could have saved a lot of confusion.
 
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The term Normal Summon is used in english to refer to your one summon or set for the round.
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That is not completely accurate.

The text on Light of Intervention clearly illustrates that there is a difference. They are 2 different characteristics.

Monster Cards cannot be Set face-down. Monsters Set in Defense Position are Normal Summoned in face-up Defense Position.
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The "Normal" in Normal Summon is actually a characteristic that the monster is given as it is being brought into play. It is given specifically to monsters that are brought onto the field face-up straight from your hand, with no effect. A "Set" is a monster being brought into play straight from hand face-down, with no effect. The rulebook limits this kind of action (either or), to once per turn, but the terms Normal Summon and Set are distinctly different. The different versions of "Summon" are based on how the monster comes into play, but in 99% of the cases it is specifically given to monster brought into play face-up. The only time placing a monster face-down is considered a Summon is when you Special Summon (by effect), and it specifically states that you can do so.

Additionally, an effect can use the terms "Normal Summon" and "Set" as mechanics or keywords if you will, and will give the monster a "Normal" or "Set" characteristic even though it was by effect (technically) that it came into play, as in the case of Ultimate Offering.

For the condition to state: "The tokens cannot be used as a Tribute for a Tribute Summon." and then to rule a "Tribute Set" as illegal as well, means that the text is incorrect or unfinished. Then again, this is nothing new, in the "world of Yu-Gi-Oh!." It is like stating that "you cannot Normal Summon" on the card, and then ruling that you cannot Set either.
 
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And here's another example to show how it can be misleading

If "The Last Warrior from Another Planet" is face-up on the field, neither player can summon (including special or flip summon) a monster. But they can set one...

"Scapegoat" and "Stray Lambs": you can't summon this turn, but you can set.

So I can see where there's a big misconception and "Scapegoat" should have an errata that says "these tokens cannot be offered as a tribute for a Tribute Summon or Set".

- A
 
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As outlined on pages 24-26 of the rulebook, Summons are categorized into Normal (including Tribute and Set), Flip, and Special Summons.

Ultimate Offering allows a Normal Summon, this is a summon or set including a tribute summon or set. The phrase Normal Summon is being used to refer to the kind of summon or set you are allowed once per turn. Light of Intervention does not say anything to disprove this. It simply states that you can not Set the monster so you would have to Normal Summon face up in either attack or defense. Last Warrior from Another Planet is referring to summon as I described the action to bring a monster onto the field face up (whether that is flipping a set monster, summoning face up from your hand, or special summoning).
 
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The Rulebook is defunct and quoting it, seems risky at best. I can see where the confusion comes from though.

EDIT: from the Official Rulebook on Netrep.net:

What is the restriction:
"During either Main Phase 1 or 2 of your turn, you can play (Summon or Set) only 1 Monster Card on the field."

What are the choices:
"When playing a Monster Card to the field, a player must choose to place the card in 1 of 2 positions: Attack Position or Defense Position. For Attack Position, place the card face-up and vertical (a Summon). For Defense Position, place it face-down and horizontal (a Set)."

Summoning:
"To Summon a Monster Card, select it from your hand and place it face-up vertically (Attack Position) on an open Monster Card Zone space."

Normal Summon:
"Summoning a monster without the aid of Spell or effects is called a Normal Summon. A Normal Summon can only be conducted once in a single turn, during either Main Phase 1 or 2"

Tribute Summon:
"A Tribute Summon is considered a Normal Summon."

A Set:
"To Set a Monster Card, select it from your hand and place it face-down horizontally (Defense Position) on an open space in the Monster Card Zone."

"A Monster Card on the field in face-down Defense Position IS NOT considered to be summoned. Instead, it has simply been Set and can be summoned with a Flip Summon (Flip Summon)."

I think based on that, it is pretty clear that they are infact different.

In fact the very first paragraph states: "1. Set or Summon Monster Cards" and while a Set is mentioned under Normal Summon, it is not infact a sub-category at all.

As well, Tribute Summon is specifically related to Normal Summon not Set, which is where the discrepancy comes from here.
 
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