Shift + decoy dragon?

[mmik21]

If I shift someone's attack so it goes to decoy dragon, will I get his effect? Or is it no longer considered "when THIS CARD is designated as an attack target"?

Considering I was the one that switched it over or something, or does the card Shift make it considered designated?

Also, If they target Lord of D with a spell, if I switch it to a dragon does the effect disappear?

One last thing: If they sakuretsu a monster can I switch it to another?

thanks

 

[Maruno]

When this card is selected as an attack target by your opponent's monster, select 1 Level 7 or higher Dragon-Type monster from your Graveyard, Special Summon it and switch the attack target to that monster.

I'd imagine you will NOT gain this effect when you use Shift to change the attack target to Decoy Dragon, because you're the one choosing Decoy Dragon as the attack target, not the opponent's monster. Otherwise it would say something like, "When this face-up card is attacked...".



For your second question, Lord of D. has already been targeted, before you use DNA Surgery or whatever to change its Type. Targeting happens at activation. I don't know whether the effect would disappear or not, though. My completely uneducated guess: it would disappear.



If you wanted to know if you can use Shift to make Sakuretsu Armor destroy a different monster, well, you can't. No other monsters are attacking, and therefore there are no other legal targets. Which means you cannot activate Shift. Sakuretsu Armor must destroy the attacking monster, and no others.

 

[mmik21]

I'm sorry, for that second question I meant can I switch the target spell to a dragon on my field? Am I even aloud to to begin with, and if I am will the effect disappear?

Thanks, but I hope someone comes in with proof that you're wrong about that first one, or decoy dragon seems pretty useless.

 

[Maruno]

You CANNOT use Shift to change the target of a Spell Card to a Dragon-Type monster while you control Lord of D.. As Lord of D. says, Dragon-Type monsters cannot be targeted, no matter what. Shift would try to target a Dragon-Type monster, which is illegal.

Thanks, but I hope someone comes in with proof that you're wrong about that first one, or decoy dragon seems pretty useless.

Maybe it is, when you try to use Shift, but how many people do? (Seemingly more and more nowadays, actually.) Decoy Dragon works just fine on its own. There are cards like Staunch Defender, which can a) quickly get out all your high-Level Dragons in your Graveyard, and b) possibly destroy all your opponents monsters in battle (assuming your high-Level Dragons can tackle your opponent's monsters). That sounds good to me.

Getting all your high-Level monsters into the Graveyard can be achieved easily with Future Fusion, which will also get you a Five-Headed Dragon in the end (presumably that's what you'll be wanting - or a Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon if you want). But I digress.

Decoy Dragon is a good card to use if you have a high-Level Dragon in your Graveyard, because your opponent won't dare attack it (unless they can tackle the big Dragon, in which case it'll be back in the Graveyard to tackle next battle). They'll need to waste a card to destroy it outside of battle, meaning they won't use it on something else. It's a good card, if you can work it properly. It's all about the combos.

 

[mmik21]

That's what I was looking for with shift, but staunch defender is a great idea.

In my rock deck I actually use dreamsprite, as people are more inclined to attack face downs when exodd is out, and are rather weary of trap cards.

 

[HorusMaster]

With regard to Lord of D and DNA Surgery, Lord of D. would be considered a dragon-type and as such, not able to be targetted by a Spell card. The spell would resolve without effect.

I believe Shift can be used with Decoy Dragon. The requirement isn't "if Decoy is originally selected by your opponent as an attack target". Shift makes Decoy Dragon the selected attack target. I agree with Maruno on his other point though-Decoy Dragon with Staunch Defender set causes pain to your opponent when it is attacked on it's own without Shift. You can also get your high level monsters into the graveyard with a card that came in the deck- Foolish Burial. Run a couple of copies of those and stock your graveyard that way for Decoy's effect.

 

[mmik21]

I just looked it up... Foolish burial seriously isn't limited yet?

I already moved it over to my rock deck, though, and I'm not going to be running with this structure deck to begin with. I bought it for a few key cards.

I am, however, building a red eyes deck. I'd go with blue eyes, but I have no kaibamen.

 

[Entropy]

With regard to Lord of D and DNA Surgery, Lord of D. would be considered a dragon-type and as such, not able to be targetted by a Spell card. The spell would resolve without effect.

Nope. Lord of D. only prevents a player from originally selecting a Dragon as a target.

* "Lord of D." cannot negate effects; he only prevents Dragon-Type monsters from being selected as targets of effects. Once a target has been selected, the effect of "Lord of D." is irrelevant.

Lord of D. is already selected as a target, so his effect is irrelevant. The card would go through unhindered.

I believe Shift can be used with Decoy Dragon. The requirement isn't "if Decoy is originally selected by your opponent as an attack target". Shift makes Decoy Dragon the selected attack target. I agree with Maruno on his other point though-Decoy Dragon with Staunch Defender set causes pain to your opponent when it is attacked on it's own without Shift. You can also get your high level monsters into the graveyard with a card that came in the deck- Foolish Burial. Run a couple of copies of those and stock your graveyard that way for Decoy's effect

To me, the timing for the effect seems to be the same as Sakuretsu Armour, or similar "Activate when attack" cards.. Since Sakuretsu Armour definitely wouldn't work after Shift, I'd say it wouldn't work here.

 

[HorusMaster]

I disagree with regard to basing Shift off the ruling for Sakuretsu Armor. Sakuretsu's effect states to destroy the attacking monster. Activating Shift doesn't change the fact that the monster attacked. If Staunch Defender was activated in response to the opponent's monster declaring an attack target, how would the effect resolve? Shift should work the same as Staunch Defender, not Sakuretsu Armor.

 

[Maruno]

I believe Shift can be used with Decoy Dragon. The requirement isn't "if Decoy is originally selected by your opponent as an attack target". Shift makes Decoy Dragon the selected attack target.

Reading the text of Decoy Dragon, though:

"When this card is selected as an attack target by your opponent's monster..."

When you use Shift, YOU'RE the one selecting the attack target, NOT your opponent('s monster). Activation criteria aren't fulfilled, therefore the effect doesn't activate.

If they wanted it to say, "During the Battle Step when this card is attacked..." they would have said that, because that wording does not imply that the original attack declaration has to be against Decoy Dragon (so Shifted attacks would work fine too). I know there's no standard layout for effect text, but they're at least trying to say what they mean (although I think they've been a bit more shoddy about it lately).

I disagree with regard to basing Shift off the ruling for Sakuretsu Armor. Sakuretsu's effect states to destroy the attacking monster. Activating Shift doesn't change the fact that the monster attacked. If Staunch Defender was activated in response to the opponent's monster declaring an attack target, how would the effect resolve?

You cannot activate Shift in response to Sakuretsu Armor. Why? There's only 1 legal target for Sakuretsu Armor, the attacking monster, and it's already being targeted. Activating Shift would do nothing, which is illegal (since you'd have to select the same monster again), and therefore it is impossible to activate Shift in response to Sakuretsu Armor.

Sakuretsu Armor states that the monster it destroys MUST be the monster that initially declared the attack. That's why Shift doesn't work here.

Staunch Defender does nothing to the current attack when it is activated in response to an attack. You could select a different monster to attack with Staunch Defender than the one that's being attacked at the moment, and it would make no difference. Staunch Defender sets up a condition such that when your opponent declares an attack, the target of that attack must be the selected monster. Activating it in response to an attack means you're activating it AFTER the attack target has been selected, and it can't change that fact.

Shift should work the same as Staunch Defender, not Sakuretsu Armor.

That just makes no sense. Shift, Staunch Defender and Sakuretsu Armor are entirely different cards, with different effects. There's no reason to compare any of them based on what they can do, because they all do completely different things.

* Shift redirects the target of a Spell, Trap or attack.
* Staunch Defender sets up a condition this turn whereby your opponent must attack with all available monsters, and when they declare an attack they must choose xxx monster as the attack target. No redirection here.
* Sakuretsu Armor destroys the attacking monster (which must still be attacking at resolution).

 

[HorusMaster]

You cannot activate Shift in response to Sakuretsu Armor. Why? There's only 1 legal target for Sakuretsu Armor, the attacking monster, and it's already being targeted. Activating Shift would do nothing, which is illegal (since you'd have to select the same monster again), and therefore it is impossible to activate Shift in response to Sakuretsu Armor.)

Sakuretsu Armor states that the monster it destroys MUST be the monster that initially declared the attack. That's why Shift doesn't work here.

I agree here...the previous postings asked about using Shift with Sakuretsu Armor and that the timing for Shift was the same as the timing for Sakuretsu Armor.

Staunch Defender does nothing to the current attack when it is activated in response to an attack. You could select a different monster to attack with Staunch Defender than the one that's being attacked at the moment, and it would make no difference. Staunch Defender sets up a condition such that when your opponent declares an attack, the target of that attack must be the selected monster. Activating it in response to an attack means you're activating it AFTER the attack target has been selected, and it can't change that fact.)

Sorry but you are SO wrong here. Per Netrep:

"You can only activate this card when your opponent declares an attack. Select 1 face-up monster on your side of the field. During this turn, your opponent can only designate the selected monster as an attack target and your opponent must attack the selected monster with all face-up monsters."

"Activating Staunch Defender causes a replay."

So, Staunch Defender DOES redirect the target of the attack regardless of what monster was selected at the time of the declaration of attack.

* Shift redirects the target of a Spell, Trap or attack.

You said it yourself here so why wouldn't Shift work with Decoy Dragon. The requirement is met and as such, a player should be able to change the target of an attack to Decoy Dragon.

 

[Maruno]

Ah, okay. I was assuming the ruling for Staunch Defender instead of checking it, and I was wrong. Ah, now it works completely how it should. That's cool.

You said it yourself here so why wouldn't Shift work with Decoy Dragon. The requirement is met and as such, a player should be able to change the target of an attack to Decoy Dragon.

The difference between attacking Decoy Dragon and redirecting an attack to Decoy Dragon is the person that chooses the attack target.

The pivot factor is the word "declare". Your opponent, or your opponent's monster, "declares" an attack, i.e. selects an attack target. Shift just moves the attack target to something else (the word it uses is "switch". This is NOT the same as "declaring", or selecting the attack target.

Shift
Normal Trap Card
You can activate this card when your opponent designates 1 monster on your side of the field as a target of a Spell, Trap, or battle attack. Switch the target to another monster on your side of the field.

Decoy Dragon needs to be selected as an attack target, which is something Shift does not do. It's the same kind of difference as "discard 1 card" and "send 1 card in your hand to the Graveyard". All discarded cards are sent, but not all sent cards are discarded. The equivalent terms in attacks are "is attacked" and "is selected as an attack target".

Moreover, it needs to be selected as an attack target by your opponent's monster. Shift is a Trap Card you control, which is entirely not "your opponent's monster". Even if Shift declares the new monster as the attack target, Decoy Dragon would have been declared an attack target by your Trap Card.

This is how Command Knight can be attacked, even if her battle invisibility effect is working. The opponent cannot declare an attack on her, but there's nothing stopping YOU (with a card like Shift). Solar Flare Dragon cannot be attacked, period, so you can't even use Shift to make it be attacked. Shifting an attack to Command Knight

So since you're using Shift to declare an attack on Decoy Dragon (if it even does select Decoy Dragon as an attack target), Decoy Dragon needs to have been declared an attack target by your opponent's monster. The thing doing the attack target declaring here is your Trap Card. Therefore Decoy Dragon's effect doesn't activate.

Otherwise it would say something like, "When this face-up card is attacked...".

Finally, this argument. Yes, card texts aren't great, but this point I made above is still valid. There's a big enough difference between "is attacked" and "is declared as an attack target" for there to be a difference in text. If the card meant "is attacked", it would say it, even if the quality of card texts has gone downhill recently.

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On a related note, Decoy Dragon's effect looks like a mandatory Trigger, so if it was attacked (ignoring all other cards here), its effect would activate automatically. Then you could chain Shift. How would that work?

Shift to another attack target, Special Summon the high-Level Dragon and make that the attack target. Therefore Shift does nothing. Is that about right? That's the way I see it. Could Shift even be activated in response to your opponent attacking your Decoy Dragon?

 

[mmik21]

As much as I agree that shift won't work, it seems Staunch Defender will.

It specifically states that your opponent must select the mosnter as an attack target. This'll be a great combo if I'm right.

 

[Maruno]

Yes. Staunch Defender works differently. It sets up a condition whereby when your opponent attacks, the attack target they designate as they always do for an attack MUST be "this monster", where you choose the monster with Staunch Defender. The opponent still chooses the attack target as they would normally, but their choices are forced down to 1 by Staunch Defender.

Staunch Defender also forces your opponent to attack with all their valid monsters, which is another condition.

Yes, the opponent is still declaring the attack on Decoy Dragon, so Decoy Dragon WILL get its effect. If Staunch Defender causes a Replay, your opponent will declare another attack target (still their choice, but now just a choice of 1, and they can't back out). So they'll still trigger Decoy Dragon's effect.

Staunch Defender combos well with Decoy Dragon. If you know how.

 

[skey23]

Just so everybody is clear...

"Shift" and "Decoy Dragon" does not work.

 

[CraniumX]

Nice to find this post actually, as I was a little curious about whether Staunch Defender (and Shift to a point) would work, since I was trying to look for cards with an Amazoness Archers effect that could be used with Decoy Dragon. Too bad there's no card that actually forces an attack, I've long thought Rock decks could use something like that, now with Decoy Dragon, it would just be insane for Dragon decks.

I wasn't sure Staunch Defender would work, since it forces everything to attack the Decoy Dragon, but then the Decoy Dragon's effect would force it to attack another creature, so I wasn't sure it was a legal play, since we all know how confusing this game can be at times.