Simple Question Regarding the Damage Step

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bjswp56

R. I. P. Chris Benoit
Ok, here's the problem I'm beginning to get confused over. In the Damage Step, damage is calculated and dished out, monsters go to the graveyard, and effects are applied; this isn't in any particular order in the way I presented it. Now, on another thread, there is a discussion on Cyber Jar's effect. The argument I've been having is that Flip Effect Monsters go to the graveyard first, and then their effects get applied. On the other side of the argument, they remain on the field, are merely labeled destroyed, and go to the graveyard after their effects are applied.

Now according to pg. 26 of the Version 5.0 rulebook, under Damage Step, it reads "Calculate the damage points of the designated monsters. If a monster has a Flip Effect, apply it immediately after damage calculation. However, a Flip Effect does not affect monsters that have already been destroyed as a result of damage calculation."

From this context, it would seem that damage calculation itself is what ultimately destroys a monster in battle, and Flip Effects are applied immediately after damage calculation; this means that the monster would have been destroyed, sent to the Graveyard, and would not be on the field when the effect is applied, correct?

Furthermore, on pg. 34, in the Glossary, "Destroy" reads as "A card is destroyed when it is sent to the Graveyard due to battle between monsters..." Due to terminology, I would come to the conclusion that, in terms of Flip Effect Monsters, the monster is destroyed by damage calculation, the monster is sent to the Graveyard because its been destroyed, and then its Flip Effect is applied.
 
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Destroyed and sent to the graveyard are 2 distinct seperate things. After Damage Calculation you resolve any effects [sub-step 5 from Kevin's Damage Step Details] (the monster destroyed by damage calculation is still on the field, however it can't be targeted by a flip effect such as Hane Hane because it is already dead and thus not a valid target to return to the hand) after resolving effects then you send the monster to the graveyard [sub-step 6 from Damage Step Details] and then you would activate any graveyard effect such as Mystic Tomato.
 
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Ok, having looked at Kevin's Damage Step essay, I've found something that further confuses me. Between steps 5 and 6, there's something about how a monster is first considered destroyed and is sent to the Graveyard after their unresolved effects are applied. Now, here is the problem. In the latest version of the Official Rulebook (Version 5.0) there is a newly added glossary of terms. In the glossary, "Destroy" is defined as "...when (a monster) is sent to the Graveyard due to battle between monsters or by an effect that destroys a card.

What I don't understand is how UDE's Game Developer has an explantion that does not fall in line with the printed definition of the term itself, or vice-versa. I'm not challenging Kevin's essay or word, but I believe UDE may have either overlooked or ignored something when printing the new Rulebook. Regardless, I will follow Kevin's essay until someone can clarify the situation.
 
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The phrase "sent to the Graveyard due to battle between monsters" is correct. It is in the Step 6 of Kevin's Damage Step Chart. "Battle" here means going through all steps in Battle Step and Damage Steps", and the monster lost in the Step 4:"Apply Damage".
 
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Raigekick said:
The phrase "sent to the Graveyard due to battle between monsters" is correct. It is in the Step 6 of Kevin's Damage Step Chart. "Battle" here means going through all steps in Battle Step and Damage Steps", and the monster lost in the Step 4:"Apply Damage".
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Ok. Thanks to you guys' advice, I've finally figured out that it was my misunderstanding of the Rulebook's layout. I made the connection a little while ago of how everything fits. Thanks for being consistent in your posts; it really helped.
 
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ok...this is a personal doubt. i play zombies and i was just wondering..if my oponent has a BLS-EotB, and i attack with ryu kokki, if he activates a waoboku, does the BLS-EotB dies for the effect of ryu kokki?..i know that my ryu kokki does dies, but, if waboku prevented the damage to BLS, does it dies for his effect?
 
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Melchiah76 said:
ok...this is a personal doubt. i play zombies and i was just wondering..if my oponent has a BLS-EotB, and i attack with ryu kokki, if he activates a waoboku, does the BLS-EotB dies for the effect of ryu kokki?..i know that my ryu kokki does dies, but, if waboku prevented the damage to BLS, does it dies for his effect?
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BLS-EotB will still die because it's the effect of Ryu Kokki that destroys him, not the battle damage. Waboku only prevent battle damage.
 
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Raigekick said:
BLS-EotB will still die because it's the effect of Ryu Kokki that destroys him, not the battle damage. Waboku only prevent battle damage.
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so, even if you dont make damage to the life points (with waboku still in effect) the damage step has to be done. the damage step is sort of like a "formality", even if you dont make damage to the life poitns..mmm.

i understand the case before, that BLS would die because of the effect of ryu kokki. then, following the same concept, if i activate waboku, and i had a ddwl or gethsu fuma on the field, and my oponent had a dark ruler ha des, he will die/be removed because he never destroyed my monsters (protected by waboku), but the effects will kill him (even if i was the one making the attack). thks a bunch!!
 
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