Skill Drain and Slate Warrior

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Fury

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If my opp's Cyber Dragon destroys my Slate Warrior it loses 500 ATK/DEF.
If later Skill Drain is activated the ATK/DEF modification on Cyber Dragon remains because it is caused by a lingering effect, right?
If later the same Slate Warrior returns to the field, is the effect it created earlier negated because it is now face-up on the field?
 
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Correct. The 500ATK/DEF modification has already been applied. Skill Drain can only negate an effect. Not the effect's results after resolution. (Continuous effects, notwithstanding.)

If Slate returns, then he would have his effect negated for any future monsters that destroy him, but not for the ones that were resolved before Skill Drain.

Hope that made sense. If not, I am sure someone will come alone and present it more eloquently...
 
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No. The lingering effect of the ATK/DEF reduction is separate from the card that generated it (Slate) and is only referencing the monster it is attached to (Cyber Dragon). It does not hold a continuous connection to Slate Warrior after Slate has been sent to the Graveyard, whether Slate is removed from play, returned to the field, hand, or deck, or even just remains in the Graveyard.
 
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MightyDingo said:
Correct. The 500ATK/DEF modification has already been applied. Skill Drain can only negate an effect. Not the effect's results after resolution. (Continuous effects, notwithstanding.)

If Slate returns, then he would have his effect negated for any future monsters that destroy him, but not for the ones that were resolved before Skill Drain.

Hope that made sense. If not, I am sure someone will come alone and present it more eloquently...
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oof! I hope I havent been out of circulation that long. Am I mistaken in my previous post?

From what I remember, Skill Drain would prevent only the flip effect of Slate Warrior gaining 500 ATK/DEF, because it would activate and resolve on the field, where Skill Drain holds sway.

The ATK/DEF reduction effect of Slate only triggers after it has been destroyed in battle and sent to the Graveyard. So, it isnt on the field to be negated by Skill Drain, correct?

If Slate Warrior is returned to the field later, the previous reduction to Cyber Dragon has already resolved and is now lingering about its targetted creature (sorry for the "target" but its the easiest way to describe right now). The lingering effect should not be connected to Slate Warrior, nor should Skill Drain be able to stop another ATK/DEF reduction, should Slate Warrior again be destroyed as a result of battle and sent to the Graveyard.

Please help me understand, though. I loathe the idea of giving out faulty information if Im wrong.
 
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Yes, but if you notice, the chart points out that the effect of raising the stats occurs here.

5] Resolve effects

>> From this point forward, monsters are considered
"destroyed". So monsters destroyed by "Dark Ruler Ha Des" cannot activate
their effects, destroyed monsters are not eligible for selection by card
effects such as "Hane Hane", etc.

>> Activate unresolved card effects now that do not activate
when a monster is sent to the Graveyard. Examples: all Flip Effects, "D. D.
Warrior Lady", "Wall of Illusion", and the effects of "Slate Warrior" and
"Royal Keeper" that increase their ATK and DEF. These effects form a chain
and then resolve.
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Im not disputing that part. The effect that raises Slate Warrior's ATK from 1900 to 2400 is a Flip Effect, does resolve on the field, and is negated.

But the 2nd effect of reducing the ATK of the monster that destroys Slate as a result of Battle is not a Flip Effect. Its a Graveyard-activated effect. It wouldnt happen unless it was destroyed as a result of Battle and sent to the Graveyard. This seems clear by the fact that you do not need to have Flip Summoned Slate in order for it to be destroyed and still lower the ATK of Cyber Dragon. You could simply Normal Summon Slate, suicide it, and reduce Cyber Dragon by 500 ATK.

The chart by Mr. Tewart is only talking about the first effect.
 
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Apparently, they "shadow-changed" the rules for Slate Warrior.

"¢ [Re: Gorgon's Eye] "Gorgon's Eye" cannot negate the effect of "Sangan", "Witch of the Black Forest", or "Sinister Serpent" because they activate in the Graveyard. If a Defense Position "Slate Warrior" is attacked and destroyed, the effect of "Slate Warrior" that lowers ATK and DEF is applied because it activates in the Graveyard.

"¢ [Re: Grave Protector] If "Grave Protector" is on the field, the effect of "Slate Warrior" that reduces the ATK and DEF of the monster that destroys "Slate Warrior" is still applied, even though "Slate Warrior" is shuffled back into the Deck instead of being sent to the Graveyard. The timing of "Slate Warrior's" effect is still at the end of the Damage Step (when monsters are normally sent to the Graveyard after battle).

Slate Warrior's effect is now like Apprentice Magician. When Slate Warrior is destroyed and removed from the field, its effect activates in whatever zone it is currently in.
 
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The "Gorgon's Eye" ruling is in error. Someone should send an email to UDE/Konami and notify them of the inconsistency. The two rulings are contradictory, but the "Grave Protector" ruling is consistent with the text of "Slate Warrior".
Slate Warrior said:
Effect Monster (Fiend / WIND / 4 Stars / ATK 1900 / DEF 400)
FLIP: Increase the ATK and DEF of this card by 500 points. The ATK and DEF of a monster that destroys this card as a result of battle is decreased by 500 points.
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As you can see, the effect triggers when he is destroyed by battle, not when he's destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard. It will resolve in the "resolve effects" portion of the Damage Step right before it goes to the Graveyard.

Hope this helps!
 
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Fake Precision.

The ruling doesn't say that Slate Warrior activates "only" or "always" in the graveyard, the rulings don't contradict each other.

If a monster has been removed from the field, after losing a battle, and not by an effect, then it has been destroyed by battle. The rulings do not contradict the text. (the text doesn't say Slate Warrior activates "immediately" after being destroyed by battle)

Slate Warrior stat reducing effect is activated at the end of the damage step, as per the precision of the rulings.
 
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squid said:
The chart by Mr. Tewart is only talking about the first effect.
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Ah, yes. I only read "the effects of Slate Warrior" and stopped reading. *Takes a slap* Sorry for spreading false information.

DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
The ruling doesn't say that Slate Warrior activates "only" or "always" in the graveyard, the rulings don't contradict each other.
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Well, it makes a difference if The End of Anubis is on the field.

Apprentice Magician's effect now activates on the field, right?
So even if it is sent to the grave while The End of Anubis is on the field you still get the search, right?

Do we agree that Apprentice Magician and Slate Warrior work the same way i.e. have the same activation time?

Also, does this timing mean that these effects activate at the same time as the recruiters? So would SEGOC apply to them?
 
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Under Normal Circumstances, End of Anubis negates the effects of Slate Warrior and Apprentice Magician, because they are in the graveyard to begin their activation sequence.

They work the same way, and SEGOC does apply. Slate Warrior is a mandatory trigger effect, and Apprentice magician is an optional trigger effect.
 
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Fury said:
Apprentice Magician's effect now activates on the field, right?

So even if it is sent to the grave while The End of Anubis is on the field you still get the search, right?
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Where does it say that Apprentice Magician applies her Search Effect while on the field?

The only effect that activates on the field is to place a Spell Counter. I think you misunderstood what the ruling meant, when they say that she has the same timing as cards that activate in the Graveyard.

"WHEN" she is sent to the Graveyard, you search for a monster, not while she is on the field, which is why she can only be used by the owner, and not the opponent if they control her when she is destroyed.

DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
If a monster has been removed from the field, after losing a battle, and not by an effect, then it has been destroyed by battle. The rulings do not contradict the text. (the text doesn't say Slate Warrior activates "immediately" after being destroyed by battle)

Slate Warrior stat reducing effect is activated at the end of the damage step, as per the precision of the rulings.
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By that logic, D.D. Assailant would then go to the Graveyard before being removed from play, since he doesnt say that he "can't or does not" go there when he is destroyed in Battle.

I could see if his effect stated

Text
When this card is destroyed as a result of battle with your opponent's monster [and sent to the Graveyard], remove from play both this card and the opponent's monster that destroyed this card.

But it doesnt, so it would appear that his effect activates directly after Damage Calculation which is not the end of the Damage Step.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Where does it say that Apprentice Magician applies her Search Effect while on the field?
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That's a card text vs. ruling situation.

But anyway, so, where exactly does Apprentice Magician's search effect activate?
Field, grave? Or grave+RFG+deck all at the same time?

An where does the ATK/DEF penalty effect of Slate Warrior activate?

Also if the later, then will Dark Ruler negate Apprentice Magician's effect regardless where it activates?
 
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Fury said:
That's a card text vs. ruling situation.

But anyway, so, where exactly does Apprentice Magician's search effect activate?
Field, grave? Or grave+RFG+deck all at the same time?

An where does the ATK/DEF penalty effect of Slate Warrior activate?

Also if the later, then will Dark Ruler negate Apprentice Magician's effect regardless where it activates?
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Apprentice Magician activates in the Graveyard or RFG, which is why it was stated that she has the same basic timing as a regular searcher, since they both most leave the field in order to activate.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
By that logic, D.D. Assailant would then go to the Graveyard before being removed from play, since he doesnt say that he "can't or does not" go there when he is destroyed in Battle.
Click to expand...

The logic was that the text doesn't contradict the ruling. Not that the text means it waits until the end of the damage step. (i.E. as far as the text itself is concerned, either would be correct.)

So no, the logic does not mean D.D. Assailant is sent to the graveyard first.
 
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I found something interesting:
UDE FAQ about Dark Ruler Ha Des said:
Flip Effects and effects that activate in the Graveyard WILL be negated. This includes "Sinister Serpent", "Sangan", "Witch of the Black Forest", "Marie the Fallen One", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Masked Dragon", "Magician of Faith", "Man-Eater Bug", "Nimble Momonga", "Twin-Headed Behemoth", etc.

Monster effects that activate after damage calculation will be negated if your Fiend-Type monster destroys the opposing Effect Monster. Examples include "D.D. Warrior Lady", "Thousand Needles", "Slate Warrior", "Ryu Kokki", and "Wall of Illusion".
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The first section is about Flip Effects that are negated and effects that activate in the grave. Slate Warrior is not among them.

The second is about effects that activate right after damage calculation before the monsters are sent to the graveyard.
Slate Warrior is among them. So does this mean its ATK/DEF penalty effect activates right after damage calculation before it is sent to the graveyard? It looks like that to me at least.
 
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Fury said:
I found something interesting:The first section is about Flip Effects that are negated and effects that activate in the grave. Slate Warrior is not among them.

The second is about effects that activate right after damage calculation before the monsters are sent to the graveyard.
Slate Warrior is among them. So does this mean its ATK/DEF penalty effect activates right after damage calculation before it is sent to the graveyard? It looks like that to me at least.
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There is never going to be a "comprehensive list" of monsters and effects that occur at any given time, unless it is so small, like Pyro Clock of Destiny (and even that is most likely incomplete), so, to keep people guessing, they toss in a "Etc...", and there you have it.

But, Slate Warrior is not a Graveyard Effect. It will occur regardless of where he goes after he is destroyed in Battle.
 
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Well it is possible that it is just a coincidence but I think it's not the case here.

Of course it would be better to have official rulings on this but until then we only have out opinions, which in this case arent the same.
 
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Fury said:
Well it is possible that it is just a coincidence but I think it's not the case here.

Of course it would be better to have official rulings on this but until then we only have out opinions, which in this case arent the same.
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Official Rulings on what? When Slate Warrior is destroyed in Battle, his effect triggers to decrease the attack of the monster that destroyed him by 500 ATK in the "Resolve Effects" portion of the Damage Step before he is sent to the Graveyard. What more do you need to know? That's about as official as its going to get.
 
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