skill drain

[mikoal]

if skill drain is on the field
does justi break work if you have a monster on the field with skill drain on? and does ceasaefiure still inflict 500 for each effet monster?

i fail to see justi break working, just cuz its an effect monster being negated, but does it make it normal??

 

[densetsu_x]

Negating effects does not change the type of monster it is. An effect monster is an effect monster 1 way or the other. Only the brand new Gemini Monsters have the ability to change their type (although Skill Drain would make them effect monsters since that is what they are with the effect to make them Normal). But Ceasefire still does damage, and Justi-break isn't usable unless your Normal monster is attacked, etc.

 

[roadhouse007]

No. Just because an effect monster is negated does not mean it is then counted as a normal monster. No Justibreak, Ceasefire still does damage determined by the number of effect monsters on the field (negated or not), etc.


This brings up a question in my head though. Would skill drain negate the first effect of gemini monsters (the one that makes them a normal on the field until the second summon) or would they still count as a normal unless second summoned? I would assume that while on the field, it would negate it, making them effect monsters all the way except for in the graveyard (you could still birthright them).

 

[densetsu_x]

Quoting myself, Skill Drain indeed makes Gemini Monsters Effect Monsters (with their effect negated) so you couldn't use Justi-break with them either.

 

[cuzwbd]

so, what happens when skilldrain is destroyed? do they revert to normals then ("remembering" whether or not they were "gemeni'd / re-sumoned or not) ? or are they like fusillier dragon and remain effect monsters ? gaining their secondary effects?

 

[densetsu_x]

There's no ruling on that here. In Japan though, if the monster was re-summoned, it becomes an effect monster again otherwise it's a normal monster again (it doesn't "forget" if it's been re-summoned).

 

[HorusMaster]

If Skill Drain is destroyed, then the monsters revert back to the state they were in prior to Skill Drain. Gemini monsters, although still Effect Monsters, will revert back to being 'normal' monsters if that was the case prior and will revert back to 'gemini effect' monsters if they were re-summoned prior to Skill Drain.

 

[roadhouse007]

Quoting myself, Skill Drain indeed makes Gemini Monsters Effect Monsters (with their effect negated) so you couldn't use Justi-break with them either.

Didn't see that post I guess. That's what I figured though. But it's nice that they don't forget if they have been re-summoned. What if the re-summoning were done while skill drain was active? They still have been re-summoned, right? You can activate their effects (by that I mean resummoning) while skill drain is out, just like anything other effect monster..

 

[Martok]

This brings up a question in my head though. Would skill drain negate the first effect of gemini monsters (the one that makes them a normal on the field until the second summon) or would they still count as a normal unless second summoned?

Skill Drain
Group: Trap Card
Type: Trap
Icon:Continuous
Pay 1000 Life Points. As long as this card remains face-up on the field, negate the effects of all face-up Effect Monsters on the field.

While a Gemini Monster is face-up on the field, without having been normal summoned using its effect, it is treated as a Normal Monster "for any card's effect that references Normal Monsters or Effect Monsters" (link), including Skill Drain.

This means, if Skill Drain was not active when the monster was summoned, then the monster is not affected by the effect of Skill Drain.
You can even use its effect and normal summon it, but then it would become an Effect Monster, and as a result, Skill Drain would immediately negate all of its effects.

However, if Skill Drain was already active when the monster was summoned, then the monster wouldn't be able to become a Normal Monster in the first place.

 

[densetsu_x]

And I can make the arguement from the very line above the one you are quoting with the fact that "... Gemini monsters are orange, and are Effect Monster cards."

As such you can say that it is the effect of the card that makes them Normal Monsters initially and when Skill Drain is active, that aspect is negated too. And since we're going to agree to disagree, might as wait for the "official" word then. (Incidentally, this is how they do rule it in Japan. Again, doesn't guarentee anything since we know how often the rulings do differ, but again they are the same more times than not).

 

[Martok]

And I can make the arguement from the very line above the one you are quoting with the fact that "... Gemini monsters are orange, and are Effect Monster cards."

As such you can say that it is the effect of the card that makes them Normal Monsters initially and when Skill Drain is active, that aspect is negated too.

How can SD negate the effect of a monster whose effect makes itseld unaffected by the effect of SD?

Take Wildheart for example.
Wildheart is orange, and is an Effect Monster card.

As such you can say that it is the effect of the card that makes it unaffected by SD initually, and when SD is activated, the effect of Wildheart is still not negated, because of Wildheart's own effect.

This is why the card color reasoning doesn't work that well.

 

[krishna]

How can SD negate the effect of a monster whose effect makes itseld unaffected by the effect of SD?

Take Wildheart for example.
Wildheart is orange, and is an Effect Monster card.

As such you can say that it is the effect of the card that makes it unaffected by SD initually, and when SD is activated, the effect of Wildheart is still not negated, because of Wildheart's own effect.

This is why the card color reasoning doesn't work that well.

Well in Wildheart's case, similar to Jinzo, it all depends on which card is on the field first.
If Wildheart is on the field before SD is activated, then I believe Wildheart will be uneffected by Skill drain (Don't quote me on this yet)
But if Skill Drain is active when Wildheart is summoned, then wildheart's effect is negated.

Edit, Found it in netrep.

For "Elemental Hero Wildheart" vs. "Skill Drain", whichever effect was active on the field first takes precedence. So if "Elemental Hero Wildheart" is on the field and "Skill Drain" is activated, his effect is not negated. But if "Skill Drain" is on the field and "Elemental Hero Wildheart" is Summoned, his effect is negated by "Skill Drain" as long as "Skill Drain" remains on the field

 

[Maruno]

If the Gemini monster (without a Gemini Summon) is already on the field when Skill Drain is activated, it will remain as a Normal Monster because of its effect. You can also Gemini Summon the monster, but as soon as it becomes an Effect monster Skill Drain will negate its effects.

If Skill Drain was active first, when you Summon a Gemini monster, its effect will be negated, it will NOT be treated as a Normal monster, and you CANNOT Gemini Summon it. Once Skill Drain leaves the field after this, the Gemini monster will become a Normal monster by its effect, and you can Gemini Summon it.

 

[slither]

How can SD negate the effect of a monster whose effect makes itseld unaffected by the effect of SD?

It's effect doesn't make it unaffected by Skill Drain, being unaffected by a an effect is a completely different thing.

The game recognizes a type of monster, a "yellow" colored monster is a Normal Monster, an "orange" colored monster is an effect monster, the only thing Gemini Monsters have for them coming up, is that their effect let's them be treated as normal monsters, (like Proto Cyber Dragon having it's effect considering it a Cyber Dragon) so Skill Drain will deprive Gemini Monsters of their effect.

 

[Martok]

It's effect doesn't make it unaffected by Skill Drain, being unaffected by a an effect is a completely different thing.

Its effect makes it a Normal Monster. Normal monsters are unaffected by Skill Drain.

=> It's effect makes it unaffected by SD.

The game recognizes a type of monster, a "yellow" colored monster is a Normal Monster, an "orange" colored monster is an effect monster,

Stop thinking in colors ^^

If you destroy your opponent's Dark Necrofear and it is equipped to a monster, it is treated as an Equip Spell Card. It's still orange, but its effect (controlling the monster) will not be negated by SD.

If you activate Stronghold the Moving Fortress and, after its resolution, CeaseFire, then Stronghold will count as an Effect Monster Card and "add" 500 points of damage to the effect of CeaseFire, although Stronghold is not orange.

 

[DarkLogicianOfCaos]

Normal monsters are unaffected by Skill Drain.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it might be better to say that Skill Drain ONLY effects Effect Monsters, rather than the other way around. (We have seen where NOT something does not mean it's oposite being true-e.g. the E-Hero Elemental issue that got his signiture).

It is an effect, a continuous effect at that, which treats him as a Normal Monster. Different is the effect of Wildheart that allows him to ignore effects. Looking at it from the perspective of Skill Drain, it looks around the field looking for Effect Monsters. It sees a Gemini Monster, who looks as though it should be an effect Monster, because it senses that there is an effect going on. however, the harder it looks at the card, it just plain looks like a Normal Monster. So, it passes. Well, at least that is how it would work on TV

But, this is YuGiOh! TCG where anything can happen. Rather that looking at it from Skill Drains perspective, we look at it from a Field perspective, wherein a condition is now placed upon the field to wit, any effect is negated UNLESS there is an effect which prevents, or ignores Skill Drain (such is the case with Wildheart). Geminis do not negate or ignore anything in and of themselves. So, they, even though they may be currently treated as Normal Monsters not having an effect, will still be negated. Thus making them negated Effect Monsters. That seems logical.

Yeah, I could see it going either way. Still, I think it will go the first way in the end. Because YGO logic rarely follows reality.

As for when Skill Drain leaves the Field, what would happen? Well, if Fusilier Dragon has any bearing: (from RONIN) ""¢ If you Summoned this card without Tribute, and then "Skill Drain" is later activated, the ATK and DEF are no longer halved. If "Skill Drain" is later destroyed, the ATK and DEF still remain 2800/2000."

I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

[slither]

=> It's effect makes it unaffected by SD.

Actually no it doesn't, as I stated earlier, unaffected means just that, unaffected... and take a good look at your clause:

It's effect makes it unaffected by SD.

Meaning it is an effect, nothing else than a Gemini Monster's effect.

Stop thinking in colors ^^

There is nothing else to think off, if it's a basic ruling, it's like ignoring life points, phases, etc. it's a game basic.

If you destroy your opponent's Dark Necrofear and it is equipped to a monster, it is treated as an Equip Spell Card. It's still orange, but its effect (controlling the monster) will not be negated by SD.

The game sees it in the s/t zone and it ignores it as a monster.

If you activate Stronghold the Moving Fortress and, after its resolution, CeaseFire, then Stronghold will count as an Effect Monster Card and "add" 500 points of damage to the effect of CeaseFire, although Stronghold is not orange.

After activation, Special Summon this card in Defense Position; it is treated as an Effect Monster Card (Machine-Type/EARTH/Level 4/ATK 0/DEF 2000). (This card is still treated as a Trap Card.) While "Green Gadget", "Red Gadget", and "Yellow Gadget" are all face-up on your side of the field, the ATK of this card becomes 3000.


Again it is treated, the game recognizes it that way, as Gemini Monsters are different because their effect as stated earlier allows them to be treated that way, Skill Drain deprives them from their effect.

 

[Fury]

By reading the rulings on Skill Drain you can see that it also negates the effects of Fusion and Ritual monsters. And those are not Effect Monsters i.e. Orange. So either the wording on Skill Drain is not very accurate or the definition of what an Effect Monster is must be more clarified.

 

[densetsu_x]

By reading the rulings on Skill Drain you can see that it also negates the effects of Fusion and Ritual monsters. And those are not Effect Monsters i.e. Orange. So either the wording on Skill Drain is not very accurate or the definition of what an Effect Monster is must be more clarified.

Yes, if you want to be technical it negates the effect of any face up card that has the text [EFFECT] printed on it.

 

[Fury]

Actually Spirit,Toon and Gemini monsters dont have the [Effect] tag