Some questions

[mikoal]

1) can you activate multiple dimension walls when an opponent atks,

ie: Player A atks with reflect bounder
Player B responds with Dim Wall
Player A repsonds with nothing
Player B repsonds with another Dim wall

Will that work? will player A take 3400 or 1700?

Also what if player A chained to dim wall with MST, can player B chain another Dim Wall?

2)When can you ring of destruction Breaker when he is at 1900?

Scenario 1

Player A summons Breaker, triggers a counter to be placed on breaker, chain link 1

if player B responds with ring itll be chain link 2,

therefore breaker gets ring-ed at 1600

Scenario 2

Player A summons Breaker, triggers a counter to be placed on breaker, chain link 1

if player B chains nothing

resolves, breaker is at 1900, and decides not to remove counter

Player B starts a chain with Ring,

Breaker dies at 1900

Scenario 3

Player A summons Breaker, triggers a counter to be placed on breaker, chain link 1

if player B chains nothing

resolves, breaker is at 1900, and decides to remove counter to destroy the face down ring

Player B responds with Ring,

what does breaker die as? 1600 or 1900? is removing the counter like a cost which happens immediately?
Because I think breaker dies as 1600.

Also is there a window where Player B can sneak in a ring?
Ie: when the counter is succesfully implemented on breaker can player B ring braeker prior to player A removing the counter? or im guessing that the TP has priority and once breaker has a counter he can remove it immediatly and if he deicdes not to remove the counter then player B can ring breaker at 1900?


3) During damage steps, only lvl 3 or atk/def mods cards can be actiavated, so when u hit a cyber jar u cant torrential because the efect is activiting during damage step, like searchers, and flip effect,

lets say Player A has that continuous magic card that removes mosters from play when bounced to hand, (the name escapes me)
*EDIT* Degenerate circuit
Player B atks with treeborn frog to Player A's face down penguin soldier

Can player B chain enemy controller to take the penguin soldier before treeborn leaves the field? I take it no, beacuse of my frist paragraph

also same question but with nightmare penguin instead of penguin soldier. because its not a flip effect.

4)
Player A has a face up atk steamroid and a set limiter removal

can steamroid be at 4600 and 4100 depending on when u activate limiter? also can you time ur limiter so that it happens before steamroid's manual boost making limiter chian link 1?

5) i think this was answered in the previous thread, but ill ask it anyways,

Player A has a Jinzo face up and a set Compulsary evac dev
Player B has an DDA, and book of moon set

Playyer B declares an atk ,
player A no response
Player B responds with book
player A no response

resolve

jinoz is face down

Player A responds with Compulse...

i beleive its been decided that this does work, so that battle part is stationary until all chains have startd and ended......some thought that once a single chain has ended it proceeds with the battle.......

I cant remember, but there was an example that was similar to battle phase but it only allowed 1 chain........

 

[densetsu_x]

Just to get the answers out and the explanations later...

1) 1700. Dimension Wall just redirects damage, not inflicts it. So a 2nd one is redundant.

2) You're second scenario. If it gets the counter and the opponent does nothing. In the other cases the counter isn't there or already gone.

3) If you are in the Damage Step when Penguin Soldier / Nightmare Penguin are flipped, you can't chain Enemy Controller to sack your monster to prevent it from leaving the field.

4) Steamroid's timing is the same as Kinetic Soldier. You can't squeeze in Limiter Remover before the 500 attack increase/decrease so it will be either 4100 or 3100 depending on whose turn it was.

5) Yes you can since Compulsory Evacuation Device doesn't have a timing issue like Sakuretsu Armor in the Battle Step.

 

[mikoal]

Thanks for the prompt response, i know ur probably explaining it now......but just to fully wrap my mind around it,
1) if the first dim wall redirects it, cant the second dim wall redirect it as well?
I can see how megamorph is redundant when doubling original atk. Dim Wall is a redirection and not damage by effect ........so i guess there is only 1 true battle damage and that can be redirected, you cannot clump multiple dim walls togehter. (just trying to explain it to myself?)

2) sorry i guess i kinda asked the question incorrectly, my main concern had to do with

starting ring when they just removed counter (is it like a cost (the removal of counter), when does it get removed? (spell speeds?))

Also is there a window where Player B can sneak in a ring?
Ie: when the counter is succesfully implemented on breaker can player B ring breaker prior to player A removing the counter? or im guessing that the TP has priority and once breaker has a counter he can remove it immediatly.


3)ok just as i thought.......

4) is there a reason on why u cant squeeze in the limiter? is this because steamroid is a continous effect and that it gets applied immedialtely?


5) Is there a situation when you are in a battle, or whataever (i cant remember) when you can only start a chain once, otherwise it'll go through?

 

[densetsu_x]

1) Dimension Wall's effect is just to redirect Battle Damage, not inflict it. It's a state. So all you do when you activate multples in the same chain is just keep setting the state. So when Battle Damage is finally calculated, the state just says redirect it. Doesn't redirect it more than once... just once.

2) Removing the counter is the cost so Breaker is 1600. So there isn't any chance to sneak Ring in there unless the player opts to not use the effect.

4) Yes. It's Manditory so it's Chain Link 1 in the damage step.

5) That would be the damage step chain when you can increase/decrease ATK/DEF of monsters. But you can have multiple chains in the Battle step before proceeding to the damage step.

 

[Entropy]

2)I'm definitely interpreting something wrong, and am probably going to sound stupid, but still...

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=3127#3127

I always thought that this ruling meant that after a chain, there is a priority-like situation where players can respond to the chain. If so, wouldn't the turn player have priority to activate Breaker's effect (since it's an Ignition effect)?

4) Just to clarify...Steamroid/Kinetic Soldier's effect activate during damage calculation, and after the chain resolves, you apply the damage. There's no opportunity to respond with Limiter Removal.

 

[bear]

That's what Den basically said. TP has to choose NOT to activate Breaker's effect for Mikoal to ring it for 1900. Breaker's effect is Chainable. At least that's what I gathered from this conversation.

Edit: just looked it up. the placement of the counter is treated as chainlink one. So it's like Den said.

Rulings
Placing a Spell Counter on "Breaker, the Magical Warrior" is a chain that begins after it is Summoned. If your opponent chains "Trap Hole" or "Ring of Destruction" to the placement of a Spell Counter on "Breaker, the Magical Warrior", "Trap Hole" / "Ring of Destruction" resolves before the Spell Counter is placed on "Breaker, the Magical Warrior", so you cannot chain "Breaker, the Magical Warrior"'s effect.

"Breaker, the Magical Warrior"'s effect is Spell Speed 1 so you cannot chain it to the activation of a Spell Card.
You can use "Breaker, the Magical Warrior"'s effect multiple times in the same turn as long as you can keep re-supplying him with Spell Counters (using "Pitch-Black Power Stone", etc.).

Removing a Spell Counter is a cost; if you remove a Spell Counter from "Breaker, the Magical Warrior" and your opponent chains "Ring of Destruction", the Spell Counter has already been removed so "Ring of Destruction" deals 1600 damage to each player; "Breaker, the Magical Warrior"'s effect that destroys a card is still applied even though "Breaker, the Magical Warrior" himself has been destroyed at that point.
If I chain "Ring of Destruction" to the placement of a Spell Counter on "Breaker, the Magical Warrior", "Ring of Destruction" does 1600 damage to each player because the action of placing the Spell Counter has not resolved.

 

[mikoal]

2) in the example turn player uses warrior returning alive, then he doesnt have the priority to summon before the NTP uses mind crush.....

which is similar to me asking once the counter resolves, can the NTP like the example ring before TP has chance to remove counter....
so cant the NTP respond to the resolution of the counter to breaker? ringing him at 1900?

4) so...
"If this card attacks your opponent's monster, increase the ATK of this card by 500 points during the Damage Step only. If this card is attacked by your opponent's monster, decrease the ATK of this card by 500 points during the Damage Step only.
"

The atk is changed in damage calculation of the damage step?
if thats the case, your right, no chance to respond w/ limter, cuz ur already in calculations...

 

[bear]

No. the placement of the counter is link 1 a chain. the removal of the counter is a cost, so ring would miss the timing to hit him for 1900 there. he would have to be on the field and not use the counter.