Some timing questions

M

mikoal

Sinister Control
these may be some easy questions, but i was just curious what would be the exact timing on this


Player A is turn player, has sangan on the field and a thestalos in hand
Player B has a set pwwb and 2 cards in hand
Player A tributes sangan for thestalos

Now what happens here?
when does sangan's effect kick in? when will thestalos's effect trigger? and activate and "select" that card randomly?


now Player B thinks that thestalos is similar to mobius, when mobius is summoned, he can select up to 2 spell/trap cards, player B recalls a game he had played before, and that the turn player summons mobius selects the 2 of the 3 targets of the opponent first, then the non turn player would respond with a trap, like trap hole or something. if player A was lucky enough to guess the 2 bluffs, then mobius would have essentially caused all 3 cards to be used, 2 bluffs and trap hole, other wise if non turn player (player B) activated trap hole first, then player A can just select the other 2.

Now my question is, when does thestalos "select" that random card, because if thest is tribbed, triggered and activated, and the card is selected, player B would chain pwwb with that one selected card, other wise he wouldn't because he would lose 2 in hand...........


so im not sure how all that resolves..........
but for 1 second, lets just say thest's effect of selecting that card was done immediately when thest is summoned, how will sangan's effect, and pwwb's discard and effect kcik in??
 
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Their effects will chain. I think it goes in this order:

Sangan's effect will trigger in the graveyard, but Thestalos' effect will chain it and activate first, discarding 1 card from your opponent's hand.
Then, Sangan's effect will allow you to add 1 monster from your deck (1500 or less) to your hand.

I think that's how it works.
 
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Machinefreak's answer is correct. The effect of "Sangan" will be link 1 of the chain, always, followed by the effect of "Thestalos".

You do not choose which card to discard with "Thestalos'" effect until it resolves. By that time, it's way too late for your opponent to chain with "PWWB".

So, if the opponent chained with "PWWB", then the chain would look like this:

"Sangan" -> "Thestalos" -> "PWWB"

Resolve backwards.
 
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so if opp tries to chain pwwb, he or she would lose their 2 cards in hand......

the second part of the question, regarding mobius....when does mobius target/select, and why does it differ in timing than thest (im assuming it is?)
 
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mobius' effect targets... so select target of 2 or 1 or 0 at activation of effect.... thestalos' effect is a random one - it does not target - so that card will be "selected" at resolution
pretty much a standard way to tell if an effect "targets" or does not...cards that target choose that target @ activation (like ring of destruction) cards that do not target choose taarget @ resolution (like hammer shot)

now if person being hit with thestalos was running dark world - he would pay cost (discard/send) for phoenix wind blast with a non darkworld card leaving a goldd or sillva to be taken by thestalos the firestorm monarch there by getting full effect of goldd, wu-lord of dark world, or sillva, warlord of dark world

where i seem to have trouble is figureing out when to start a new chain or add to existing one... sangan here goes first on new chain with thestalos and phoenix wind blast, rather than being on a separate chain from the other effects...( from previous thread - dark world monsters make another chain...)
 
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really/ interesting - i assumed that "random" was the keyword....i never knew in hand cards were not targetable.... ( d. d. designater? mind crush?) thanks simon - learn something new every day
 
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Targeting something means you're marking out one specific (or more) card, and you can always tell the difference between it and any other card. Cards on the field have separate Zones, so it's easy to tell them apart. But since you can mix around cards in your hand whenever you want, your opponent has no way of knowing which card they picked in your hand. A player's hand is seen as "3 cards", rather than "that card" + "the other card" + "another card", which means you cannot pick "that card" in particular. You'll always pick "a card", which by definition would be a random choice.

"D.D. Designator" and "Mind Crush" don't target any cards. They pick card names, and then you have a look at the hands.
 
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this is probably frowned upon for what if situations
but "what if" thestalos targetted

how would things chain and resolve???

Sangan effect? thest effect, thest target? player responding and selecting that card as a discard?


EDIT: im assuming it'll resolve like this

card is discarded for PWWB, PWWB happens and pops thest on top of deck
then thest's target fizzles
then sangan effect,
shuiffle deck
thest is no longer on top of deck
 
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It's always a bad idea to "what if" something. If you want a targeting example, though, replace Thestalus with Granmarg (and a legal target). And something like Compulsory Evacuation Device or something attempting to save the targeted monster.

You'll target the monster with Granmarg when you activate its effect, i.e. when the effect is added to the Chain at Chain Link 2. Chain Link 3 can then be CED, and resolve as any regular Chain:

3 - Return the monster with CED.
2 - Loses target, effect disappears.
1 - Sangan.
 
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mikoal said:
this is probably frowned upon for what if situations
but "what if" thestalos targetted

how would things chain and resolve???

Sangan effect? thest effect, thest target? player responding and selecting that card as a discard?
Click to expand...
Whether or not these cards target has no bearing on determining which card effect goes first on chain in this scenario. Skey23's ruling can be confirmed on the judge site here: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/community/forums/thread/858758.aspx

Tributing Sangan for Thestalos is not quite a true SEGOC situation, but when multiple effects go on chain, we still follow SEGOC chain sequence rules:
1. Turn player MANDATORY effects go on chain first,
2. Non-Turn player's MANDATORY effects go on chain next.
3. Turn player's OPTIONAL effects go on chain, then
4. Non-Turn player's OPTIONAL effects go on chain last.

If we have multiple effects to resolve during a Phase, we use priority to determine the order of resolution.

doc
 
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