Spirit Reaper

[Fiendish Envoy]

If Spirit Reaper is targeted by Snatch Steal, and Mystical Space Typhoon is chained, will Spirit Reaper still destroy itself?

 

[Jathro]

Ruling #5:

"Spirit Reaper" is destroyed by its own effect after a card that targets it resolves. If a Spell Card targets it, and the activation of that Spell Card is negated (such as with "Magic Jammer"), then "Spirit Reaper" is not destroyed. However, if the effect of the Spell Card was negated, such as if "Imperial Order" is active, then "Spirit Reaper" is destroyed because the Spell Card resolves (even though its effect is negated). Even if "Imperial Order" is already active on the field, you can activate a card such as "Tribute to The Doomed" designating "Spirit Reaper", and "Spirit Reaper" will be destroyed by its own effect.

Given your situation, Spirit Reaper lives.

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

Thats what I'm thinking as well, but looking for some verification before going to Judges List if necessary.

Side Note: Remember that MST is not negating Snatch Steal's activation. It is just 'destroying' it, and since Snatch Steal is no longer on the field, it would be unable to resolve.

 

[Jathro]

And since the targetting spell is not able to resolve, Spirt Reaper is able to survive... correct?

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

That's my thinking...but then again, the ruling you quoted also says this:

However, if the effect of the Spell Card was negated, such as if "Imperial Order" is active, then "Spirit Reaper" is destroyed because the Spell Card resolves (even though its effect is negated).

We know that Mystical Space Typhoon doesn't negate anything, so the above ruling probably doesn't apply, but I want to be sure about this.

 

[masterwoo0]

Even though MST doesn't negate anything, Snatch Steal is a Continuous Effect that must resolve in order to gain its effect. Basically, since it's destroyed before it can resolve, it's targeting effect should Disappears as well.

 

[Jathro]

Because Imperial Order only negates the spell card. The spell card still activates and resolves, although the effect of it is negated.

If the Spell itself (in this case Snatch Steal) is not able to resolve (because it was interrupted by MST which destroyed it), then Spirit Reaper avoids being targetted and therefore survives.

 

[alvarojosal]

Well this is just my thinking, i could be wrong and i am not a judge but i am just thinking about this.

Snatch Steal activates and selecets Spirit Reaper as the target
MST targets Snatch Steal destroying it
Snatch Steal activation was not negated only the resolution, but since it targeted at activation Spirit Reaper will still be destroyed by its effect.

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

Well this is just my thinking, i could be wrong and i am not a judge but i am just thinking about this.

Snatch Steal activates and selecets Spirit Reaper as the target
MST targets Snatch Steal destroying it
Snatch Steal activation was not negated only the resolution, but since it targeted at activation Spirit Reaper will still be destroyed by its effect.

That's the counter-point, but there isn't much evidence supporting it. At least the point of view that Reaper survives has some rulings to back it up.

EDIT: Unless of course, there's a ruling supporting what you stated that I haven't found yet.

 

[alvarojosal]

That's the counter-point, but there isn't much evidence supporting it. At least the point of view that Reaper survives has some rulings to back it up.

EDIT: Unless of course, there's a ruling supporting what you stated that I haven't found yet.

Well, MST doesnt negate activation, equip cards select targets at activation, since it was selected as a target, Spirit Reaper effect activates, its effect rulings state that he must be face up during his effect activation AND resolution, so even if a continous spell/trap or an equip Spell card is activated and destroyed in the same chain, if its activation isnt negated and it targets at activation, the targeting is not negated, so Spirit Reaper will die by its own effect, u have to negate the activation or, remove it from the field or flip it face down with another card in the chain, this last part works for every targeting card, unless u want a Change of Heart to be used on him that's it.

Its true that MST negates the effect of any continous spell/trap it destroys, or a field/equip spell card, but activation is never negated by MST since it isnt a card that says (negate the activation and the effect) like Magic Jammer

 

[Jathro]

No, it doesn't negate activation. But you said yourself: Spirit Reaper needs to be face up at activation and resolution. Since MST destroys Snatch Steal before it resolves properly, Spirit Reaper lives.

 

[alvarojosal]

I meant resolution of Spirit Reaper's effect, not the targetting spell

 

[skey23]

Just in case there is still any confusion, like I'M an authority on this subject......

"Spirit Reaper" would indeed survive since "Snatch Steal" DID NOT resolve as per it being destroyed by "Mystical Space Typhoon".

As stated before, "Spirit Reaper" must be face-up when the effect that targets it activates AND resolves. And since "Snatch Steal" never resolved, "Spirit Reaper" never self-destructs.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Just in case there is still any confusion, like I'M an authority on this subject......

"Spirit Reaper" would indeed survive since "Snatch Steal" DID NOT resolve as per it being destroyed by "Mystical Space Typhoon".

As stated before, "Spirit Reaper" must be face-up when the effect that targets it activates AND resolves. And since "Snatch Steal" never resolved, "Spirit Reaper" never self-destructs.

Correct. The key thing you need to look for is the resolution of the card targeting Spirit Reaper. If it is not allowed ot resolve then Spirit Reaper's effect will not destroy him. The ruling was phrased in such a way so as to convey that. "Negation" means that an effect is not allowed to resolve properly. MST does not negate cards, but fundamentally the same thing is happening here. The improper resolution of an effect. Don't get too caught up in the fact that the card in the example ruling was negated. Thats just one way for the resolution of the card to be stopped. Look at the mechanics behind the ruling and you'll see that failure to resolve is why Spirit Reaper's effect does not trigger.

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

Sometimes I wonder why I even try...

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=207946

Don't worry, I've already sent this to Da List. I'm not in the mood for arguing.

 

[masterwoo0]

After reading the Pojo Thread, I agree that using cards like Tribute to The Doomed, if destroyed by MST, should resolve with effect because they are Normal Spell Cards, and if the effect is not negated, it goes through regardless.

But Snatch Steal is not a Normal Spell Card, and must be on the field at chain resolution to resolve properly. If it's targeted by MST prior to it resolving, how can it be considered to "resolve without effect"?

This is a case of splitting hairs. If you look at Barrel Dragon, it can still destroy Spirit Reaper because, unlike a Continuous Spell Card that gets destroyed before it resolves, Barrel Dragon is still on the field even if it doesnt flip the proper amount of heads. The effect resolved without destroying its target, but Spirit Reaper was still targeted, and thus destroyed.

So, if you chain Ring of Destruction to Barrel Dragon's effect, does he still destroy Spirit Reaper??

 

[Fiendish Envoy]

But Snatch Steal is not a Normal Spell Card, and must be on the field at chain resolution to resolve properly. If it's targeted by MST prior to it resolving, how can it be considered to "resolve without effect"?

Exactly.

So, if you chain Ring of Destruction to Barrel Dragon's effect, does he still destroy Spirit Reaper??

Yes, even though Barrel Dragon is not on the field, his effect does resolve (or possibly, resolve with no effect) and therefore Spirit Reaper would destroy itself.

 

[anthonyj]

Continuous Spells and Traps must remain on the field in order to resolve. They don't "Fizzle" if MST'd, they cease to be. They wouldn't resolve at all and by not resolving the Spirit Reaper is spared from having to blow himself up.