Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenai

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Gren Maju Da Eiza's original ATK is 0 when it needs to be defined.

But as for actually using it for Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenai i'm not sure if you can or can't:

"0" is a whole number, and sometimes counts as doing something (you Can add zero Thunder Dragons to your hand, you can return zero monsters with Penguin Soldier)

Although generally with life-points it's you need to do a "natural" amount of damage. (Like in Spirit Reaper rulings--0 is not a natural number)

So I am inclined to say that you cannot tribute a monster with 0 original ATK for Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenai
 
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From what maju effect says it would be zero...because it says the atk and defense not the original and if the original atk is ? then the original atk is zero. The same goes for Great Maju. When he is put face down and flipped again his atk is zero.

So i think you can.... it just does zero....
 
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The only tricky part is the fact that the tribute is done as cost, so if it's known that 0 damage will be inflicted at that point, it might make it illegal.

I'm more inclined to think that you can, you would just inflict 0 Effect Damage.
 
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I'll have to disagree with you on this Novastar.

There has to be definate value of the damage being dealt. If you Acid Trap Hole the monster while it's face down and there aren't any cards removed from play then the ?/? stats mean that Acid Trap Hole has no set value to run off of. "?" isn't a value so it wouldn't destroy the monster.

Cards that require a set value for the effect to work. It's just my opinion...
 
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there are 2 parts tot he effect.

first the tribute part then the secondary part.

which would do damage to the opponents life points = to the original attack.

lets you activate Ring of Destruction, your opponent responds with Pikeru's circle of enchangement.

would you say the effect of ring fades out, because Pikeru says it will make it 0 for any damage done to the owner of pikeru?

no it doesnt fade out. 0 is a number and if its 0 damage that you will be inflicting then its 0 damage.

its the reason why the card says Original Attack. because then anybody could just pump up a gren maju de iza and bust a OTK.

really. why is it you only do 2000 damage even after you tributed 2 pyros when you tribute a Gia the combustable colective?

becuase the original attack is 2000 not 4000.

they made the card that way so it could be ballanced and not just the next 1 sided Ring of Destruction.
 
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Tkwiget said:
I'll have to disagree with you on this Novastar.

There has to be definate value of the damage being dealt. If you Acid Trap Hole the monster while it's face down and there aren't any cards removed from play then the ?/? stats mean that Acid Trap Hole has no set value to run off of. "?" isn't a value so it wouldn't destroy the monster.

Cards that require a set value for the effect to work. It's just my opinion...
Click to expand...
Acid Trap Hole would destroy the monster, the same would apply to Bottomless Trap Hole.

"If the monster flipped face-up has an effect that changes its DEF, such as "Enraged Muka Muka", calculate the current DEF, then determine if it will be destroyed or flipped back face-down. So if you had 4 cards in your hand, "Enraged Muka Muka" would not be destroyed."

This ruling indicates that you would create an ATK/DEF for the monster as if it was face-up.

Once a monster with "?/?" stats becomes face-up on the field, it's ATK/DEF becomes 0/0 (unless an effect changes that).

As far as the thread topic, the tricky part is that the tribute is done as cost. I could honestly see it both ways. I'm leaning towards ...yes.
 
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I would say that since it's determined at activation that the effect would do nothing, it would not be allowed to activate.

I would check the JERP, but I'm timeless. Or something...
 
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I have a couple of questions for everybody...

Are you allowed to "Ring" a Sheep Token?
Are you allowed to chain "Ring" to "TER"s effect activation?

If so, how much damage gets inflicted?

(NOTE: The above are rhetorical questions that we ALL should know the answer to.)

Why would this not be the same case?
You know ahead of time that you will be doing 0 damage, what would stop it from activating and resolving?


Just my 2 cents...
 
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Since we're done debating, if someone could send it to the Judge's list, of course we need to explain "why it would matter," so feel free to copy and paste:

  • Yugi has one face down card, Magic Cylinder. Kaiba has removed twenty of his own cards from play. He summons Gren Maju Da Eiza now at 8000 ATK, and attacks Yugi expecting to win, but Yugi responds with Magic Cylinder.
    Kaiba remains calm, and recalls that Magic Cylinder checks the monsters attack at resolution. He knows that if he can remove his Gren Maju Da Eiza from the field he will not take any damage.
    Kaiba checks his options and realises he has a face-down Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenei set.

    But Gren Maju Da Eiza has 0 original ATK, and that's where the problem comes from.
    If he doesn't tribute Gren Maju Da Eiza he loses the game.

    Can he tribute Gren Maju Da Eiza for Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenei to inflict 0 damage to the opponent?
    Or
    Does the fact that Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenei can't do any damage, mean that it would be an illegal activation?
 
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I'm confused. The cost for Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenai is: "Tribute 1 FIRE monster on your side of the field." Where in this cost does it insinuate the monster has to have any kinds of stats in order to be tributed? All it asks for is the tributing of a monster. At resolution it looks at the ATK value.
 
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