Steamroid vs. E-Hero & skyscraper

[conlan316]

I got a question for you guys.

Player A has a Steamroid in attack position on the field and nothing else.

Player B has only a Elemental Hero Sparkman and a Skyscraper on the field.

If Player B's Elemental Hero Sparkman attacks Steamroid, what would happen in damage calculation.

Would Steamroid's attack go down first, causing Sparkman's attack to be higher and not activating Skyscraper, or would Sparkman attack, and Steamroid's attack being higher so Skyscraper activates, and then Steamroid's attack activate, lowering his own attack.


Steamroid
---
If this card attacks your opponent's monster, increase the ATK of this card by 500 points during the Damage Step only. If this card is attacked by your opponent's monster, decrease the ATK of this card by 500 points during the Damage Step only.

Skyscraper
---
When a monster that includes "Elemental Hero" in its card name attacks, if its ATK is lower than the ATK of the attack target, increase the ATK of the attacking monster by 1000 points during damage calculation only.

 

[magnumcyclonex]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I see it is Steamroid's effect is continuous and its atk modification has nothing to do with Skyscraper's effect, which would trigger upon the declaration of the attack. So, Skyscraper would check for Steamroid's original attack (1800) at that point, and the 1000 boost would occur during damage calculation. Sparkman would be 2600, while Steamroid would be at 1300.

 

[bjswp56]

If I've interpreted this correctly, Steamroid would first go down to 1300 ATK because its continuous effect comes into play then. If the E-Hero's ATK is still lower, Skyscraper will increase the E-Hero's ATK by 1000. If the ATK is higher, Skyscraper will not affect the battle. The reason why Skyscraper is looked at second to Steamroid is because damage calculation is a later "sub-step" of the Damage Step.

I think I got that right. :beef:

 

[OKShadow]

Submit this to the judge list and see what becomes of it. It's a perfectly valid question compared to some of the "common-sense" issues I see repeatedly there lol

 

[roadhouse007]

I agree with magnum here, although I am not sure myself.

Skyscraper checks for the condition when a monster with elemental hero in its name attacks. At this time (when the attack is declared), Steamroid's attack is higher. The boost will then happen for the duration of the damage calculation only.

Steamroid would lose 500 of his attack during a substep of damage step before damage calculation. Then damage calculation would kick in and add 1000 to the e-hero.

After typing this it just doesn't sound right, but still kind of makes sense. Well, whatever Konami says, that's what it is!

Judges list????

 

[Digital Jedi]

Actually, this is already covered in the respective monsters rulings.

Contiuous or not, it's the timing thats the issue here.

Steamroid very clearly says it's ATK increas/decrease occurs during the Damage Step. This timing that this effect comes into play in is no different from Injection Fairy Lily's ATK boost during the damage step, regardless of the effect type.

As was already mentioned, Skyscraper doesn't do anything until Damage Calculation. A much later sub-step then when Steamroids effect comes into play.

Skyscraper
If your opponent's monster's ATK is increased during the damage step, like "Injection Fairy Lily" or "Covering Fire", your "Elemental Hero" will gain the +1000 ATK for "Skyscraper".

The attacking E-Hero would have his ATK reduced by 500 as soon as he entered the Damage Step. Then as soon as he entered Damage Calculation, if his ATK is reduced to, or already, lower then the ATK target, he would have his ATk increased by 1000 on top of that.

This has everything to do with when the timing of these effects become active.

 

[daivahataka]

The attacking E-Hero would have his ATK reduced by 500 as soon as he entered the Damage Step. Then as soon as he entered Damage Calculation, if his ATK is reduced to, or already, lower then the ATK target, he would have his ATk increased by 1000 on top of that.

This has everything to do with when the timing of these effects become active.

Just FYI Steamroid reduces it's own Attack when attacked, not the attacking monster's.

 

[Absird]

Yes, both are Continuous effects and Skyscraper looks during Damage Calculation.
I personally would use Elemental Hero Burstinatrix to attack

 

[squid]

The attacking E-Hero would have his ATK reduced by 500 as soon as he entered the Damage Step. Then as soon as he entered Damage Calculation, if his ATK is reduced to, or already, lower then the ATK target, he would have his ATk increased by 1000 on top of that.

This has everything to do with when the timing of these effects become active

Just FYI Steamroid reduces it's own Attack when attacked, not the attacking monster's.

Of course this means that the final outcome of the example used, will change.

If Sparkman (1600 ATK) attacks Steamroid, once the battle moves into the damage step, Steamroid will be reduced to 1300. Proceed to Damage Calculation, and Sparkman's ATK is now higher than Steamroid's, therefore Skyscraper will NOT activate.

 

[BenjaminMS]

Of course this means that the final outcome of the example used, will change.

If Sparkman (1600 ATK) attacks Steamroid, once the battle moves into the damage step, Steamroid will be reduced to 1300. Proceed to Damage Calculation, and Sparkman's ATK is now higher than Steamroid's, therefore Skyscraper will NOT activate.

I pretty much agree with this. I think this answer will be the outcome of the judge's list (when posted).

 

[Digital Jedi]

Well, even proofreading doesn't help sometimes. I could of sworn it said "the" and not "this". Though I might add, the timing for these effects remains the same.