Strike Ninja- weird situations

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Dr Sin

New Member
I've read Curtis article at metagame.com and just to clarify, let me ask about 2 situations (I think there are some points I didn't understand):

1) TP summons Strike Ninja. NTP has 2 fd s/t (trap hole and BTH). NTP responds with TH (link 1). TP decides to use Ninja's efffect (Link 2) remmoving 2 darks from grave. Then, NTP adds BTH to the chain (link 3). Can TP still use Ninja's ability as link 4, removing Ninja before BTH can resolve, despite of Ninja text states "You can only use this effect once per turn"? (I believe the answer is yes, because I think the text really means activate and resolve once per turn, but I'm not sure)

2) Same as above, but link 3 is now a Divine Wrath. Ninja can use his ability to remove himself even against this spell speed 3 effect?

Thanks in advance
 
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I don't really think that "use" and activate are precisely the same thing, let's take a look at an example:

Blowback Dragon

Toss a coin 3 times. If at least 2 of the results are Heads, select 1 card on your opponent's side of the field and destroy it. You can only activate this effect once per turn, during your Main Phase.

now I believe that activation means attemption, while use is a used effect. Which is why I agree with skey at a certain extent.
 
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I think what's causing the biggest issue here is the fact that "Strike Ninja"s effect is a Spell Speed 2 Multi-trigger Effect and CAN be chained; whereas, most of the other 'once per turn' monsters are simply Spell Speed 1 Ignition Effects.

How many of the other Mult-trigger monsters are limited to a 'once per turn'?
 
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slither said:
I don't really think that "use" and activate are precisely the same thing, let's take a look at an example:

Blowback Dragon

Toss a coin 3 times. If at least 2 of the results are Heads, select 1 card on your opponent's side of the field and destroy it. You can only activate this effect once per turn, during your Main Phase.

now I believe that activation means attemption, while use is a used effect. Which is why I agree with skey at a certain extent.
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Yea...and BLS's ruling says this:

"If you use the first effect of "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning", then remove him from play and return him to play, or destroy him and Special Summon him again, or flip him face-down then face-up again, you can activate his effect again that same turn."

So to be honest, using UDE's wording here (in both card text and ruling) doesn't jive.

In the end, all i've seen is "use" and "activate" be used as if they are the same thing.
 
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novastar said:
Yea...and BLS's ruling says this:

"If you use the first effect of "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning", then remove him from play and return him to play, or destroy him and Special Summon him again, or flip him face-down then face-up again, you can activate his effect again that same turn."

So to be honest, using UDE's wording here (in both card text and ruling) doesn't jive.

In the end, all i've seen is "use" and "activate" be used as if they are the same thing.
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But we know that 'most' once per turn monster effects are reset when/if the monster is removed from the field, then returned, or flipped face-down, then back up again. That's all this ruling is supporting.

I think the 'once per turn' should read.."This effect can only be used once per turn as long as this card remains face-up on the field.", or something like that...lol.
 
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Lancedolittle said:
I mean really I get Curtis's Emails and almost always agree with the guy. But this is so over the top stupid, I can't believe it.
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Curtis has made repeated goofs on the rulings. In fact if you were to tally things up I think Curtis has given us more just plain wrong answers then anybody else at Upperdeck.

My e-mail has gone off to him questioning the article (which I'm sure will be explained away as some sort of old ruling mis-communication with Konami or some other such nonsense. Yeah I know we all make mistakes and everybody here has been wrong about something, but none of us are being paid to do this for a living. If I consistently made mistakes and gave incorrect information on my companies services, invoices, etc. I would be finding another job. So I hold the guy to a professional standard instead of hobby league or volunteer.
 
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But we know that 'most' once per turn monster effects are reset when/if the monster is removed from the field, then returned, or flipped face-down, then back up again. That's all this ruling is supporting.

I think the 'once per turn' should read.."This effect can only be used once per turn as long as this card remains face-up on the field.", or something like that...lol.
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That is not what i was illustrating...they used the term "use" instead of "activate" and then referenced "activate" later on.

Also, this ruling comes right after the ruling that states that if the effect resolution is negated you still get the restriction.
 
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I'm sorry guys, but Strike Ninja being able to chain to himself? That's just ridiculous. I'll usually give a ruling rationalization the benifit of the doubt, but nowhere have I EVER heard of attempting to use an effect being different from haveing used the effect.

You know, your still gonna take the 1000 points of Damage from a Curse of Darkness even the Spell Card you activated gets negated by Magic Jammer.

Your still going to have to pay for each attack Mataza the Zapper atempts to make while Toll or Gravekeeper's Servant are active, even if the attempts get negated by Negate Attack.

And in this case nothing is even being negated. How could we possibly rationalize that because Strike Ninja's effect hasn't resolved it isn't considered used? There is nothing in any ruling or judges list message to date to indicate that.
 
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skey23 said:
So...has anybody from our fair community here taken Curtis up on his:
Especially in light of our 'findings'?...lol.
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I emailed both my on point posts. along with a request for him to either back up his position better or reverse it.

I am sure that will go over well.LOL We'll probably get a resounding Cause I said So:p
 
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Actually in some small way the Curse ruling does help.

The damage is dealt upon successful activation, if activation is negated you don't recieve the damage.

Just like if Goats is negated by Jammer you can still summon.
 
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I guess the point I was trying to make, but somehow completly sidestepped, is that negatiuon of an effect is not the same as an effect that hasn't resolved yet. But I'll probably screw that up too.
 
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Ok here's one,

Twin-Headed Behemoth

"If this card is destroyed and sent from the field to the Graveyard, it will be Special Summoned during the End Phase with ATK and DEF of 1000. You can only use this effect once in the Duel."

"If "Twin-Headed Behemoth" would be Special Summoned by its own effect, but your Monster Card Zones are full, or the effect of "Scapegoat" prevents you from Summoning, it still considered that its effect was activated, and you cannot use it again in the current Duel."

They are basically stating that "activate" (or should i say successful activation) and "use" are pretty much synonymous.

However, i'll do more digging, Curtis may still be right on this.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
I guess the point I was trying to make, but somehow completly sidestepped, is that negatiuon of an effect is not the same as an effect that hasn't resolved yet. But I'll probably screw that up too.
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THAT's EXACTLY what I was referring to with my 'can of worms' post way back at the beginning...lol.
skey23 said:
I also believe the effect isn't considered 'used' until it has been allowed to resolve properly (opens can of worms..lol). In this scenario, nothing has resolved, so activating the effect again in the chain seems perfectly fine to me.
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Notice I said 'properly' resolve. Maybe I should have added the word negated in there as well. The effect was activated, then chained to, but wasn't negated. So, does the game still see it as having been successfully activated yet? The chain is still building.
 
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novastar said:
Ok here's one,

Twin-Headed Behemoth

"If this card is destroyed and sent from the field to the Graveyard, it will be Special Summoned during the End Phase with ATK and DEF of 1000. You can only use this effect once in the Duel."

"If "Twin-Headed Behemoth" would be Special Summoned by its own effect, but your Monster Card Zones are full, or the effect of "Scapegoat" prevents you from Summoning, it still considered that its effect was activated, and you cannot use it again in the current Duel."

They are basically stating that "activate" (or should i say successful activation) and "use" are pretty much synonymous.

However, i'll do more digging, Curtis may still be right on this.
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The effect activated and resolved without effect. It wasn't negated. That's why I agree with this ruling.
 
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