Stumbling & Tragedy

[DaAmazing1]

If Stumbling is active on the field and Tragedy was set a turn earlier, Exiled Force is summoned. According to the official ruling Stumbling is chain 1, can Stumbling be chain 2? Or do you have to wait for the Stumbling to resolve before activating Tragedy? And if you do wait can the turn player claim priority for Exiled Force's effect?

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

Since there's a point where Stumbling triggers and uses a chain, Spell Canceller will negate it upon summon, leaving it in attack mode.

The case of Level Limit - Area B is continuous placing Spell Canceller in defense mode before Spell Canceller effect is applied, related to Jinzo vs face-up Skill Drain.

I have a Question.

If both Stumbling and Level Limit - Area B are face-up, and Spell Canceller is summoned, so since Stumbling has a point where it triggers it will happen before Level Limit - Area B switches monsters to defense.

When Spell Canceller is summoned and Stumbling uses the chain, Spell Canceller effect will be applied first right? And since the effect is being applied, it will also negate Level Limit - Area B at the same time correct? Thus leaving it in attack mode...

 

[novastar]

If both Stumbling and Level Limit - Area B are face-up, and Spell Canceller is summoned, so since Stumbling has a point where it triggers it will happen before Level Limit - Area B switches monsters to defense.

When Spell Canceller is summoned and Stumbling uses the chain, Spell Canceller effect will be applied first right? And since the effect is being applied, it will also negate Level Limit - Area B at the same time correct? Thus leaving it in attack mode...

No,

Level Limit and Spell Canceller will resolve in Timestamp order first, then Stumbling triggers afterwards.

So Level Limit switches Spell Canceller into DEF and then Spell Canceller becomes active and negates both Level Limit and Stumbling.

Hope that helps

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

Ok, thanks alot, It does help.

 

[novastar]

...and remember the reason Level Limit - Area B applies first here before Spell Canceller, is because it is the earliest (first) Timestamp.

 

[chaosruler]

novastar - could you do an article on "time stamps" I think I get it, but I'm not sure...., could you post one in the NetRep Articles???

-chaosruler

 

[Raigekick]

...and remember the reason Level Limit - Area B applies first here before Spell Canceller, is because it is the earliest (first) Timestamp.

I stand corrected. I miss applied Time Stamp. It's FIFO (First in First out). The oldest one first, down to the newest one. I even wrote it in my Monster's Effects article. Shame on me .

 

[GregODonnell]

Stumbling/Tragedy...

How's it going...


I was reading the situtition between Stumbling and Tragedy vs. Exiled. From reading all the card text's, none of which does it say turn the summoned monster face down? It just says defense position.

Exiled states, while face up, player can use the effect of tribute summon to destroy a monster on the field. So can somone one tell me why, if I had exiled I couldn't use the effect. I have met all the criteria.

Greg

 

[daivahataka]

How's it going...


I was reading the situtition between Stumbling and Tragedy vs. Exiled. From reading all the card text's, none of which does it say turn the summoned monster face down? It just says defense position.

Exiled states, while face up, player can use the effect of tribute summon to destroy a monster on the field. So can somone one tell me why, if I had exiled I couldn't use the effect. I have met all the criteria.

Greg

Because it's a spell speed 1 effect and so can't be chained to anything, since Stumbling will kick in as soon as it's summoned it must wait until this, and any card(s) chained to it, resolves. So if one of the chained cards will destroy it it's gone from the field before it gets a chance to use it's effect.
This is effectively a loophole in priority.

 

[novastar]

This is effectively a loophole in priority.

Absolutely, as in any other game this would not be the case and the Priority Player would recieve Priority once all Triggers are placed on the chain.

This is really why Priority is all wrong in this game, as it is simply the right to activate the first effect on the Chain Block.

Once another effect does so, be it automatic (Triggered) or not, you loose that right.

 

[chaosruler]

novastar - can you do an article on templating and time stamps in one?? i know it's a lot to ask, but could you please??? If you have one already under way, then good luck.

-chaosruler

 

[John Danker]

This is where the term "Monster Priority" really messed people up. It gave people the mistaken idea that the only time priority was in effect is when a monster was summoned.

First as many people who frequent here and other forums know monsters do not have priority, people do.

As novastar stated (He's good isn't he? ...and extremely helpful.....kudos to novastar) basically all priority states is that during any given phase the turn player has the right to begin a chain. That can be with a spell or trap card or a monster effect.

So in a sim. situation if Mysterious Puppetier is face up on the field and Exiled Force is summoned Mysterious Puppetier's effect becomes chain link 1, now non-turn player can chain Trap Hole to Myterious Puppetier's effect destroying Exiled Force before turn player can activate Exhiled Force's effect.

Priority also determines who, after a chain resolves, has the right to begin the next chain or as some people put it, "Response chain" This topic is still pretty hotly debated though and we all await (and wait and wait) for the almighty official definition of priority to be published.

 

[Raigekick]

So in a sim. situation if Mysterious Puppetier is face up on the field and Exiled Force is summoned Mysterious Puppetier's effect becomes chain link 1, now non-turn player can chain Trap Hole to Myterious Puppetier's effect destroying Exiled Force before turn player can activate Exhiled Force's effect.

Wouldn't the Turn Player have the chance to chain "Divine Wrath" on "Mysterious Puppeteer"'s effect? Or is this another loop hole?

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Wouldn't the Turn Player have the chance to chain "Divine Wrath" on "Mysterious Puppeteer"'s effect? Or is this another loop hole?

The opponent of the controller of the last chain link to be activated has the first opportunity to continue the chain. So if the Turn player controls Mysterious Puppeteer then it is the non-turn player that gets the first chance to respond.

 

[John Danker]

Ahhh....now see this is one of the subjects that I kick myself for not delving into more deeply with Kevin when I had the chance....that being, if Mysterious Puppetier is on the non-turn player's side of the field as opposed to the turn player's side of the field.

If Mysterious Puppetier is on the turn player's side of the field than turn player has begun a chain obviously and non-turn player can chain.

If Mysterious Puppetier is on the non-turn player's side of the field however then non-turn player has begun a chain and I'm assuming turn player could respond as you said with Divine Wrath. Then, after chain resolves.....well...this is where we get into heated debates over weather non turn player can respond to the end of the chain or weather turn player resumes priority to begin a new chain.

I rule it that at this point non-turn player can respond to the end of the chain and if they pass priority turn player may choose to respond to the end of the chain. If both players pass on responding to the end of the chain then turn player resumes priority.

If the chain ends in a summon, however, turn player may activate an ignition effect or spell speed 2 or higher spell / trap.

This analogy is debated often though. If you have a question in a tournament about priority you'd best as the judge present as to how they will rule it. I hate to have to say that but it's the reality at this point.

 

[daivahataka]

This is where the term "Monster Priority" really messed people up. It gave people the mistaken idea that the only time priority was in effect is when a monster was summoned.

First as many people who frequent here and other forums know monsters do not have priority, people do.

As novastar stated (He's good isn't he? ...and extremely helpful.....kudos to novastar) basically all priority states is that during any given phase the turn player has the right to begin a chain. That can be with a spell or trap card or a monster effect.

True enough many people have the misconception that priority belongs to the just summoned monster and hence many don't realise that you can use priority on a monster other than the one just summoned.

Priority also determines who, after a chain resolves, has the right to begin the next chain or as some people put it, "Response chain" This topic is still pretty hotly debated though and we all await (and wait and wait) for the almighty official definition of priority to be published.

Ahhh....now see this is one of the subjects that I kick myself for not delving into more deeply with Kevin when I had the chance....that being, if Mysterious Puppetier is on the non-turn player's side of the field as opposed to the turn player's side of the field.

If Mysterious Puppetier is on the turn player's side of the field than turn player has begun a chain obviously and non-turn player can chain.

If Mysterious Puppetier is on the non-turn player's side of the field however then non-turn player has begun a chain and I'm assuming turn player could respond as you said with Divine Wrath. Then, after chain resolves.....well...this is where we get into heated debates over weather non turn player can respond to the end of the chain or weather turn player resumes priority to begin a new chain.

I rule it that at this point non-turn player can respond to the end of the chain and if they pass priority turn player may choose to respond to the end of the chain. If both players pass on responding to the end of the chain then turn player resumes priority.

If the chain ends in a summon, however, turn player may activate an ignition effect or spell speed 2 or higher spell / trap.

This analogy is debated often though. If you have a question in a tournament about priority you'd best as the judge present as to how they will rule it. I hate to have to say that but it's the reality at this point.

Since the turn player has priority to activate a monster effect before the non-turn player can respond to the summon with Trap Hole, Torrential Tribute, etc... I think it's really already been established that the turn player has priority to activate the response chain after the resolution of a chain, since in effect this is what happens for the above scenario. The summon is the first chain, the Trap hole/whatever is the response chain.
I am curious to hear the arguements though as this was the only one I could see.

 

[Raigekick]

The summon is the first chain, the Trap Hole/whatever is the response chain.

I'm a bit confused here. Summoning does not go to chain.

Also, this is the way I see priority in "Mysterious Puppeteer":

Player A has a Set "Divine Wrath" that is Set for more than one turn.
Player B has "Mysterious Puppeteer" in defense position and a Set "Trap Hole".
Player A is the Turn Player.

Player A Summons "Gemini Elf"
Chain Link 1: "Mysterious Puppeeter"'s effect of increasing LP.
** Player A has miss his/her priority because a Trigger Effect has priority at this point.
** In addition, Player B miss his/her chance to respond because his/her monster's effect is in the end of the chain. So, his/her moster, in a way, already responded.
Player A Activates "Divine Wrath" on "Mysterious Puppeteer"

This is a long shot, but there is some kind of logic in it.

 

[novastar]

As novastar stated (He's good isn't he? ...and extremely helpful.....kudos to novastar) basically all priority states is that during any given phase the turn player has the right to begin a chain. That can be with a spell or trap card or a monster effect.

I really appreciate that John, kudos to you too my friend.