Super Junior Confrontation vs Monsters Unaffected by Traps

masterwoo0

masterwoo0

NINJA4LIFE
Someone inadvertantly brought up this possible scenario without intentionally mentioning it on another site, so I figured I'd actually make it a real "question".


Super Junior Confrontation
Normal Trap

You can only activate this card when your opponent's monster declares an attack. Negate the battle, and 1 monster with the lowest ATK in face-up Attack Position on your opponent's side of the field battles against 1 monster with the lowest DEF in face-up Defense Position on your side of the field. After that battle ends, end the Battle Phase.


Now, obviously, if cards like elemental hero wildheart and tenkabito shien are unaffected by Trap Cards, the effect of Super junior confrontation should react pretty much the same as Negate attack if they are the attacking monster.

But, what if they are not the attacking monster, and what if they are the lowest attacking monster on the defending players side of the field?

Would the effect disappear completely, just like Creature Swap, if they are unaffected? Or, would they just not be forced to attack and the Battle Phase end because the effect does not shift to the next lowest monster?

Also, what if they are on the field with, say, d.d. warrior lady, another 1500 attacker? We know that the owner/controller selects the monster if there are monsters with the same attack. Would selecting d.d. warrior lady instead, end the Battle Phase after the Battle for Super junior confrontation ends, or, would this create a situation where having monsters unaffected by Trap Cards cause the effect to disappear again because it cannot affect all monsters?

The answer has implications to another thread we have had a heavy discussion on....

Threatening roar vs elemental hero wildheart

Personally, up to the instance where 2 monsters with the same attack come into play, I feel that the effect disappears, since it cannot resolve properly.
 
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I would think that even if it tried to resolve the attack would stop, but that is as far as it could go, because the monster (wildheart for instance) would end up not battling, therefore, there is no "after that battle ends" to allow the rest to resolve. And, if it is a legal selection (just uneffected), I would think the effectable monster's attack would stop.
 
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I would think that the effect dissapears, it first tries to resolve but it can't because Elemental Hero Wildheart is unaffected by the effects of Trap Cards. It's the same as Creature Swap vs. Horus LV6 it can be activated but when it resolves the monster can't be affected by the effects of Spell Cards and the effect dissapears.

About when Elemental Hero Wildheart is on the field and D.D Warrior Lady is the monster affected by Super Junior Confrontation. I don't think Elemental Hero Wildheart can attack because I think it's a condition that the Battle Phase must end. That is how I think it is but correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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It appears that there are three distinct events happening in the resolution of the card.
1. Negate the Battle; 2. Opponent's lower attack monster battles your lower defense monster; 3. After the battle, end battle phase.

If that is the case, and we know that not all cards with a series of effects like this are all-or-nothing, then the following should occur:

1. vs. wildheart-type monster-- it would be ignored completely by, therefore nothing would happen.
vs. non-wildheart-type monster--goto 2.
2. either are wildheart-type monsters--end resolution, the rest cannot resolve, battle phase not ended. Your monster not allowed to be attacked (Amazoness while Amazoness Tiger is on the field, Solar Flare Dragon, with another Pyro monster, etc) there is no battle, therefore, the battle phase does not end. other wise,
3. battle phase ends emediately.

the all-or-nothing question may be determined by whether or not the ", and" between 1 and 2 represents a hard break or soft (one would immagine that a soft break would only require "and", but we know that English text and syntax matter little.
 
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Yes, and that is fine for what he first wrote, when Wildheart attacks, but his actual question is, what happens when say, Bubbleman attacks, and the opponent activates Super Junior Confrontation and Wildheart is the attacker's only other monster? The Bubbleman attack should still be negated, as Super attaempts to resolve as much as possible, but the rest would not due to Wildheart's effect. Negate attack does nothing because Wildheart ignores it. Moreover, the "and" that ends the battle phase is part and parcel of the Negate, not secondary effect (in other words, it is an all-or-nothing cardd effect).
 
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Ok, just to clear at least one thing up here.

If "Elemental Hero Wildheart" or "Tenkabito Shien" were the monster on the DEFENDING player's field with the lowest DEF, then the effect of "Super Junior Confrontation" would NOT be negated. The effect simply chooses a monster on the Defending Player's field. It does nothing else to that monster. And both "Elemental Hero Wildheart" and "Tenkabito Shien" can be selected by the effects of Trap Cards. The effect of "Super Junior Confrontation" simply makes the monster on the Attacking Player's field, with the lowest ATK, attack the lowest DEF monster on the Defending Player's field.

I do agree; however, that if either "Elemental Hero Wildheart" or "Tenkabito Shien" are the lowest ATK monsters on the Attacking Player's field when "Super Junior Confrontation" resolves, then the effect will disappear because neither of those monsters can be forced to attack via the effect of "Super Junior Confrontation".

Hope this helps!
 
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Ooops! Sorry, got side tracked by a call from my daughter's nurse, wasn't thinking. Substitute Bubbleman for...ohh, Sparkaman in the senario above. How's that? You see what I mean, though, about resolving as far as it can? Agree? Disagree (with example)?
 
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skey23 said:
Ok, just to clear at least one thing up here.

I do agree; however, that if either "Elemental Hero Wildheart" or "Tenkabito Shien" are the lowest ATK monsters on the Attacking Player's field when "Super Junior Confrontation" resolves, then the effect will disappear because neither of those monsters can be forced to attack via the effect of "Super Junior Confrontation".

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Wait...in this senario (above) are you saying that the whole effect disappears, in whcih case the initial attack goes through, or that just the battl High-Low disappears, Therefore Battle Phase may continue, but the initial attack is still negated?
 
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skey23 said:
Ok, just to clear at least one thing up here.

If "Elemental Hero Wildheart" or "Tenkabito Shien" were the monster on the DEFENDING player's field with the lowest DEF, then the effect of "Super Junior Confrontation" would NOT be negated. The effect simply chooses a monster on the Defending Player's field. It does nothing else to that monster. And both "Elemental Hero Wildheart" and "Tenkabito Shien" can be selected by the effects of Trap Cards. The effect of "Super Junior Confrontation" simply makes the monster on the Attacking Player's field, with the lowest ATK, attack the lowest DEF monster on the Defending Player's field.

I do agree; however, that if either "Elemental Hero Wildheart" or "Tenkabito Shien" are the lowest ATK monsters on the Attacking Player's field when "Super Junior Confrontation" resolves, then the effect will disappear because neither of those monsters can be forced to attack via the effect of "Super Junior Confrontation".

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

I agree with this except for one thing, I really don't see why if Wildheart or Tenkabito are in the defending side the effect would continue...

I really don't see the attack being forced, but 2 monsters (a defender and an attacker) being selected to battle. So IMPO either way the effect would dissappear.
 
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Because they can be targetted, but not effected by Traps. If either are in Defense then it only targets them, if 1 of them is the lowest ATK then it disappears. Cannot force it to attack.
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
Wait...in this senario (above) are you saying that the whole effect disappears, in whcih case the initial attack goes through, or that just the battl High-Low disappears, Therefore Battle Phase may continue, but the initial attack is still negated?
Click to expand...
The initial Attack will be negated since the attacking monster CAN be affected by Traps. But the subsequent 'junior' battle would not take place and the Battle Phase would continue as normal.


Woo0, have you asked this on the List yet?
 
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skey23 said:
The initial Attack will be negated since the attacking monster CAN be affected by Traps. But the subsequent 'junior' battle would not take place and the Battle Phase would continue as normal.


Woo0, have you asked this on the List yet?
Click to expand...
Awww... the crux of the problem. I seem to have fall into the "Black Hole" of the Judge List whenever I try to tell them I cant send messages, questions or receive emails from the List.

I'm beginning to think my IP may be blocked or something because I refuse to believe that after the amount of Emails that I have sent in the past 5 months, it hasnt been addressed, and no feedback has been given, either.
 
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Oh yeah...I forgot about you being in the 'black hole' of the Judge's List...lol.

Then I got your back buddy! I'll ask. Heck, I send in like 2 or 3 a day so what's one more?....lol.
 
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