Super Rejuvenation Question

M

Mysta_E

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The effects of Armed Dragon LV5:

Send 1 Monster from your hand to the Graveyard to Destroy 1 face-up monster on your opponent's side of the field with an ATK equal or less that the ATK of the sent monster. During the End Phase of a turn that is card destroyed a monster as a result of battle, send this card to the graveyard to Special Summon 1 "Armed Dragon LV7" from your hand or Deck.

(Super Rejuvenation/Quick Play Spell: During the End Phase of the turn this card is activated, draw 1 card from your Deck for each Dragon-Type monster discarded from your hand and/or Tributed during this Turn.) Can I use Super Rejuvenation's effect on both of the effects of Armed Dragon LV5?

Thanx.
 
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Well, both cards say/ask for two different things. Sending a card from your hand probably means the same thing like Emergency Provisions. You aren't tributing anything or discarding with Emergency Provisions. So I don't think the cost part of Armed Dragon LV5 would be considered a Discard.

So I'd rule on this no, because Armed Dragon LV5 says "send" and Super Rejuvenation requires the dragon to be "discarded" and not sent.

EDIT: Oops, almost forgot to mention this.

Remember all those questions about if you Tribute Phoenix off for a summoning or for a cost like Horn of Heaven if it would come back? Well apply the same logic here. Send/Sent mean different from Discard. Unless someone thinks other wise, I'd like to hear what they have to say. =)
 
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The word "Send" applies to every action you undertake in the game of Yugioh.

A card "Discarded" to the graveyard is still "sent" to the Graveyard.

A card "Tributed" to summon a monsters is still "sent" to the Graveyard.

A card "Removed from Game" is still "sent" to the remove from game pile.

Cards affected by Fiber Jar's effect are "sent" back to the Deck.

Cards "destroyed' and "discarded" by a cards effect eventually get "sent" somewhere.

In this case, using Armed Dragon LV5, "Send" and "Discard" are one and the same for Super Rejuvenation's effect.

I think the main thing here is that Discard is usually associated with a "Cost", while "Send" is part of the effect.
 
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Is there some rulings to prove this? Like draw up some situations or past rulings that support this. I'm still hung up on that "Tribute v.s. Destroy" issue with Phoenix that still is popping up.

=P Not saying I'm right or nothing. But your logic is sound in the way Armed Dragon LV5 is worded. I just want to see more solid proof before the thread gets any larger. Just saves people time. XD
 
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Tkwiget said:
So does this mean that Super Rejuvenation wouldn't work with Armed Dragon LV5? @_@
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Think of it this way. Can you just "Send" a card from your hand for no reason? No. So that means there must be a reason to have a monster moved from your hand to the Graveyard. You can only send or discard a card from hand due to an effect, or a End of Turn discard because of too many cards in hand.

I think the word "Discard" in Super Rejuvenation is just a limiter used to narrow the range of the effect to just cards placed in the Graveyard by an effect or an act, whether it be a send or discard.
 
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I would have to agree with Masterwoo. On my understanding for ignition monster effects, you must pay a cost. I search the official website, and reed the rule book that comes with the structure decks, and paying a cost is conducted by Paying LPs, Tributing a monster, or Discard from your hand.

At first, I really couldn't determine the difference between a "Cost" and "Effect of a card". A cost usually states on the text of the card, to do something to use this card's effect. For example, Armed Dragon LV5 monster removal effect states send 1 card to destroy your opponent's monster. The key word is TO, I completely understand this now. It is like to use this card effect you must do something first. Not tribute a monster and...Like Ectoplasmer effect. The key word on a card's effect is AND.

On my opinion, I may be wrong that is why I asked this question, both of Armed Dragon LV5 effects are both a cost. Cuz you must send a card from your hand to activate his monster removal effect, and you must sent him to the graveyard to special summon Armed Dragon LV7. Now see what I mean? With these effects, you must do something to use this card's effects. They are not a card's effect.
 
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I'm gonna have to jump in here and disagree with Masterwoo0 on this one. Sending from the hand and discarding from the hand ARE, in fact two separate things.

When "Minar" and "Electric Snake" are sent to the Graveyard by "Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End", their effects are not activated because the modified text on those cards says when they are "discarded to the Graveyard from the hand".
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This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

So, this would lead me to rule that using the effect of "Armed Dragon LV5" would NOT trigger "Super Rejuvination"s effect at the end of the turn.
 
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Of course their effects aren't activated. The effect of Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End states that they are "Sent" to the Graveyard by his effect. It's not a cost, so it's not a discard.

That's why I said there is a difference between the two statements, but in the end, all cards are "sent" somewhere.

If the effect of Super Rejuvenation stated "All monsters sent from hand", that could be misinterpreted as the player could just send cards from their hand for Super Rejuvenation's effect, when the cards must already exist in the Graveyard.
 
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The powers that be have been pretty clear in the past about certain wordings.

[edit] - Tribute, discard, or destroy does not equal Send
- Discard does not equal destroy.
- Tribute does not equal destroy.

etc..etc...etc..

Just because it's a cost, it doesn't mean it's a discard. If it was supposed to be a discard, then the text would have said "Discard one monster from your hand...".
 
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Ummmm.... What are we debating again???

Armed Dragon's effect is a cost as far as I know. That we are clear on. That fact that a monster is in the Graveyard again, means that it was sent to the Graveyard by an effect.

Super Rejuvenation states that you can draw one card per Dragon-type card discarded from hand or tributed, at the End Phase of the turn.

Whats to keep me from activating this card in my Standby Phase and just tossing my hand that contains 5 Dragons to the Graveyard?? I discarded them, right? According to the effect of Super Rejuvenation, I should be able to do that.

No I shouldnt be able to do that. I can only discard cards from my hand by an effect. Discard does equal Send in this case because the cards do not have to go to the Graveyard. They can go back to the deck in the case of Outstanding Dog Marron, removed from play, or in the case of Despair from the Dark, from hand to Graveyard to Field (just using as examples, they are not Dragons, of course).

So, because Despair from the Dark states, "If this card is sent...", does that mean that if my opponent activates Confiscation or Delinquent Duo, I wouldnt get his effect??? It wasnt sent, according to your logic because "Sent" doesnt equal "Discard".
 
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When I was doing researching on Super Rejuvenation, I came across Red-Eyes B. Chick on the Yu-Gi-Oh official website. And it stated that it cannot be TRIBUTED if it is face down, cuz it is an ignition effect. Now the text of the states, Send This face-up card to Special Summon a Red-Eyes B. Dragon from your hand. When I send Armed Dragon LV5 to the graveyard to Special Summon Armed Dragon LV7, now I believe this should be considered as a tribute. This is kinda the same wording for Armed Dragon LV5 monster removal effect. So hopefully this could bring some light into this discussion. Thanx Y'all.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Ummmm.... What are we debating again???
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LOL...Card text. Send vs. Discard. LOL.

masterwoo0 said:
Armed Dragon's effect is a cost as far as I know. That we are clear on. That fact that a monster is in the Graveyard again, means that it was sent to the Graveyard by an effect.
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Yep, we agree on that, definitely.

masterwoo0 said:
Super Rejuvenation states that you can draw one card per Dragon-type card discarded from hand or tributed, at the End Phase of the turn.
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Note the highlighted words!..lol

masterwoo0 said:
Whats to keep me from activating this card in my Standby Phase and just tossing my hand that contains 5 Dragons to the Graveyard?? I discarded them, right? According to the effect of Super Rejuvenation, I should be able to do that.
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See, now you're just being silly. Of course you can't do that. We aGreed earlier that they must be discarded by an effect or cost.

masterwoo0 said:
No I shouldnt be able to do that. I can only discard cards from my hand by an effect.
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I agree...again...lol.

masterwoo0 said:
Discard does equal Send in this case because the cards do not have to go to the Graveyard.
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You said it earlier. When cards go from the hand, deck, or field to the Graveyard, they end up being 'sent' no matter if they were Tributed, Discarded, Destroyed, or Sent. I don't argue this point. That's a basic 'fact' of the game. What I am arguing is that when the card text specifically states discarded, then that's all it's looking for.

masterwoo0 said:
They can go back to the deck in the case of Outstanding Dog Marron
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It has to be sent to the Graveyard 1st.

masterwoo0 said:
So, because Despair from the Dark states, "If this card is sent...", does that mean that if my opponent activates Confiscation or Delinquent Duo, I wouldnt get his effect??? It wasnt sent, according to your logic because "Sent" doesnt equal "Discard".
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Ok, I think you caught me on that one. I typed that wrong. It should have been Discard, Destroy, and Tribute do not equal Send. (I'll edit it later..;)).

When an effect says "When this card is discarded...", you don't get the effect when it is simply sent, as in my example with the "Chaos Emperor Dragon". It doesn't matter if the 'effect' is a cost or not. If it says 'Send' as opposed to 'Discard', then it doesn't fit the criteria. When a card says "When this card is sent..." you WILL get it's effect when it is Sent, Tributed, Destroyed, or Discarded because 'sent'/'send' covers the whole gammut of how it makes it to the Graveyard.

Is that a better explanation?...lol
 
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I emailed UDE About this question.

Hello,

No. If it does not say tribute, then it is not a tribute (in this case
it is the cost of the card).

Eric Tice
Game Support Rep
Upper Deck Entertainment
Hear Yugi & Joey teach you how to play Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG! Click here.
Check
out http://www.yugioh-card.com for the latest product information, Game
Play tips, and Card Rulings.

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Montoya [mailto:eric_l_montoya@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:02 AM
To: entertainment
Subject: Yu-Gi-Oh Game Play Questions

The text of a card that states, send this face-up card
to the graveyard to Special Summon... is effect
considered to be a tribute?

The text of a card that states, Send a card from your
hand to the graveyard to... is this effect considered
to be the same as discard?

Thank You.

I think this is bull, cuz on the ruling on Red-Eyes B. Chick. So according to this person from UDE, Armed Dragon LV5 effects do not trigger Super Rejuvenation. Who knows? Only the person who makes the rules for this game.
 
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Neither Red-Eyes B. Chick nor Armed Dragon LV5 says anything about "Tributing". Just like the excellent example of the difference between "Send" and "Discard" that Skey gave this game is incredibly specific on wording. These monsters "cost" send themselves to the graveyard to Special Summon the designated monster. They do not state that they are being "Tributed". That is the key.
 
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At first reading Armed Dragon LV5 effect and Super Rejuvenation, I figured that neither of Armed Dragon LV5 effects would not trigger Super Rejuvenation's effect. It was only when I reed on the official website on Red-Eyes B. Chick is when I change my thought about it. UDE should put on their website that if discard; send to the graveyard for a cost of a monsters' effect are the same or not. And tribute; send to the graveyard for a cost of a monsters' effect are the same or not. Cuz people could get confused, like I did.

How I build a deck, I read the website yugioh-card.com to see if certain cards would be helpful in that deck am building. The webstie is very crucial for learning the game, rulings, and deck building. So I hope UDE would take things like this into consideration and fix them.
 
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Let me make a suggestion for future deck building efforts. Deck Studio and Ronin will give you 10 times the information that you get from the UDE website. It is poorly designed and doesn't contain the information you should be cross referencing.
 
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