SuperMan<>Red

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xxxVIPERxxx

New Member
On SuperMan<>Red, his Cosmic states:

Cosmic: While Superman is attacking from the front row, he gets +4 ATK.
Click to expand...

What I am wondering, is this good for any SuperMan on the field?

Kinda like Shriek/Carnage power up any character on the field. Since this doesn't stipulate which SuperMan, I assume all would get the same benefit as long as Red keeps his Cosmic counter.

Thanx!
 
Response

Hey, Viper! It's been a while since I've seen you (online or otherwise). How goes it?

Anyway, here's the answer to your question. Superman, Red's power will only give Superman, Red +4 ATK while attacking from the front row. This answer is based on the following portion of the Comprehensive Rules:

"201. Card Name
201.1 A card name appears across the top of the card. Whenever an effect or
modifier refers to the name of the card that produced it, it is only referring to
the card that put the effect on the chain, and not any other instance of that
card. Whenever an effect or modifier refers to control of a card name, it is
referring to an object with that card name."

I hope that helps. Oh, and by the way, hope you had a happy holiday!
 
Ok, Thanx Kenji. We had this brought up at the tourny yesterday, and we played it properly, even though My assumptions on the card was wrong.

We looked at it, as I stated before, it says SuperMan, and not SuperMan<>Red.

I've been around, just busy with the Holidays so I didn't get alot posted on the NetReps or at my site either.

Hope you had a good Holiday season also.
 
Superman is the card name. Red is just the version. If an effect would apply to other Superman characters it would be templated as "Characters named Superman". Any time a card name is used in the card text, it only refers to that copy of that character.

Spot's Knight
 
Kenjiblade said:
Hey, Viper! It's been a while since I've seen you (online or otherwise). How goes it?

Anyway, here's the answer to your question. Superman, Red's power will only give Superman, Red +4 ATK while attacking from the front row. This answer is based on the following portion of the Comprehensive Rules:

"201. Card Name
201.1 A card name appears across the top of the card. Whenever an effect or
modifier refers to the name of the card that produced it, it is only referring to
the card that put the effect on the chain, and not any other instance of that
card. Whenever an effect or modifier refers to control of a card name, it is
referring to an object with that card name."

I hope that helps. Oh, and by the way, hope you had a happy holiday!
Click to expand...


Forgive me for being new to this, but how do you reconcile that with this rule:
===========================================
202.3 Whenever an effect refers to a card name without referring to a card's version name, the effect refers to all version names of that card.

Example: Doom-Bot, Army reads, "Activate >>> Ready target Dr. Doom." This payment power may target Dr. Doom, Diabolical Genius; Dr. Doom, Victor Von Doom; or Dr. Doom, Lord of Latveria, as Doom-Bot does not specify a version. This can't ready Doomstadt or Kristoff von Doom, because neither of them is named "Dr. Doom."
===========================================

Do these two rules NOT contradict each other?

For instance, Superman, Kal-El says "Pay 2 Endurance --> Move Superman" - so can I or can't I pay two endurance to move my Big Blue Boy Scout?

(for the record, I keep getting different answers on this, so I really want to get this settled sonce and for all)
 
Thanks for bringing that up. This was a question that showed up last weekend, and based on what I was told for SuperMan<>Red, it's how I played it until I got a clarification. I read the same thing you did, and it made me wonder about the first one I asked...

As SuperMan<>Red gives boost to all or just himself while in the front row. It doesn't stipulate version either?
 
The way I see it, there's only three possibile choices

1) these effects only affect the card they're written on, which would seem to violate 202.3

2) these effects affect all versions of a character with the same name, regardless of version, which would seem to violate 201.1

3) these effects affect all characters of the same name and same version, which would seem to violate both 201.1 and 202.3

Damned if you do and damned if you don't...

[homer simpson voice]
stupid Cadmus Labs
[/homer simpson voice]
 
LOL! Yes, it makes the game interesting. I can't wait for Concealed to kick in. It's really gonna throw my guys for a loop...
 
When a card refers to its own name (Superman Red, Spider-Man FNSM, etc.) it refers only to that specific card. Superman Red's Cosmic ability refers ONLY to that particular Superman Red.

You will note that Doom-Bot does not refer to itself. It refers to another card. Note also the reminder text on Mimic which should help clear this up.

Summing up: If a card refers to itself/its own name, it refers only to that specific card. If a card refers to another card, especially stating target <blah>, it can target any card of that name. If a card states 'cards named <blah>' (Silver Sable, Going my Way, etc.), it refers to all cards with that name.
 
Dlanaan said:
When a card refers to its own name (Superman Red, Spider-Man FNSM, etc.) it refers only to that specific card. Superman Red's Cosmic ability refers ONLY to that particular Superman Red.

You will note that Doom-Bot does not refer to itself. It refers to another card. Note also the reminder text on Mimic which should help clear this up.

Summing up: If a card refers to itself/its own name, it refers only to that specific card. If a card refers to another card, especially stating target <blah>, it can target any card of that name. If a card states 'cards named <blah>' (Silver Sable, Going my Way, etc.), it refers to all cards with that name.
Click to expand...

But Superman, Red's cosmic ability doesn't refer to "Superman, Red" - it only refers to "Superman" - Same for Superman, Kal-El in my other example.

That's why I think it falls under 202.3
 
No card that refers to itself refers to its version. A card named Superman, regardless of version that says: Blah Blah Superman -> Superman gets Blah Blah will only refer to itself. Again, note that Superman Red's effect does not state: Target Superman gets, or cards named Superman (which would be the proper form if it applied to all cards named Superman). It states Superman gets. It is referring to itself. Cards don't refer to themselves by version. At best, their effects will search for a different version or the same version, but this doesn't apply to Superman (look at The Demon, Jason Blood for example.)

The rule you need to look at is 201.1. That is the one that applies to Superman.

201.1 A card name appears across the top of the card. Whenever an effect or modifier refers to the name of the card that produced it, it is only referring to the card that put the effect on the chain, and not any other instance of that card. Whenever an effect or modifier refers to control of a card name, it is referring to an object with that card name.

Read 201.1 to mean basically: If a card has its own name in the effect text substitute: 'this card'.

202.3 looks for cards with names OTHER than itself. This again applies to cards like Silver Sable, Going My Way, Faces of Doom, etc. It is actually 'looking' for a card to apply itself to.
 
Thanks for the explanation. I don't want you to think I was trying to fight or argue or anything...I was just wanting to get the best explanation I could, and until your last post, nobody had really given a good one.

I still wish they'd write the cards better, that when they mean "this card" they should actually SAY "this card" - it would really help make things clearer for everyone.
 
Heh, it's asked a lot and its good to get out all the reasoning and all that. I agree, 'this card' would make the headaches go away, but I think they choose the 'Superman' text to make it sound better.
 
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