Targeting

[branas]

since i started playing VS. it started to annoy me even more
that in yugioh there is really no way of knowing if some effect
is targeting or not.(you CAN memorize them all,but i dislike
that method very,very much)

take Kuriboh.
- "Kuriboh" does not target the attacking monster.
what? how? so you don't need to tell your opponent what monster's
attack will you deny???
if you choose something it should be targeting,right?

take D.D. Warrior Lady.
does not target???
come on! there's no team attack here,you can only choose one
monster(that battled with lady),or is that monster mysteriously
chosen for you by the game mechanics?!

so, is there a list with all the effects that target?

2 more that amaze me:
Adhesion Trap Hole does not target

Patrician of Darkness
As long as this monster remains face-up on the field, the controller of this card selects the targets of their opponent's attacks. --> it even says selects the TARGET, how does it
NOT target is beyond me...

ps. i think this belongs to rules, if not, move it

 

[anthonyj]

Adhesion Trap Hole does not target for the exact same reason Bottomless Trap Hole does not target.

It truly is the essence of Yugioh that many individual cards must be determined to be a targeting or non-targeting effect based on the say so of Konami. There is no 100% rule of thumb and though I've seen lists posted a number of times the card pool is always growing and some cards move from Targeting to Non-Targeting or visa versa.

 

[Tkwiget]

Kuriboh doesn't target anything. You're affecting life points or damage with Kuriboh's effect.

D.D. Warrior Lady doesn't target because you're not specifically choosing a monster. You're choosing to activate D.D. Warrior Lady which merely references what monsters will be affected by D.D. Warrior Lady's effect. The reference is the monster that D.D. Warrior Lady is in battle with.

Acid Trap Hole does target. You're selecting one card upon activation.

Select 1 face-down Defense Position monster. Flip it face-up, and if the DEF of the monster is 2000 points or less, destroy the monster. If the DEF is more than 2000 points, return the monster to face-down Defense Position.
The bolded text is what makes it a targetting effect.

Patrician of Darkness targets. You're selecting the attack targets through its continuous effect. Thus, you're targetting a monster with the effect. Think of Spirit Reaper in this case.

 

[anthonyj]

Tkwiget-
He said Adhesion Trap Hole which does not target

"Adhesion Trap Hole" works against "a monster or monsters", so "Adhesion Trap Hole" does NOT target.

Patrician of Darkness does not "Target"

[Re: Spirit Reaper] "Patrician of Darkness" does not target, so "Spirit Reaper" is not destroyed if you use "Patrician of Darkness" to force your opponent to attack it.

 

[Tkwiget]

He didn't say Acid Trap Hole? I need to lay off the Monster energy drinks! XD As for Patrician of Darkness not targetting, I'll agree with that. Don't know what I was thinking when I disagreed with you. I suppose I was enjoying all the activity Digital Jedi stirred up on TCGplayer. =)

 

[branas]

look guys, what i wrote is correct, i just disagree with it.
kuriboh works on 1 specific CHOSEN monster, so i would say it
should target. he does prevent battle damage, but from 1
monster, so if you choose that monster how come you're
not targeting it?
lady has no choice between monsters which she removes,
so she should definetly target.
it's like saying penguin soldier doesn't target because you CAN
choose not to activate him.
that's my opinion.go ahead and disagree with it.

i had a fair bir of disagreeing from folks when i pointed that
stupid bottomless traphole ruling (you summon lava golem and
then activate bottomless), which then they changed.

i think it's more important to point out illogical rulings then be
"smart" about it and agree with them blindly, cause then
things will never change :-(

 

[Tkwiget]

The fact is Kuriboh and D.D. Warrior Lady don't target.

The reason Kuriboh doesn't target is because it's affecting Battle Damage to your Life Points. It's doing nothing to the monster that's inflicting the Battle Damage. Thus, doesn't target.

D.D. Warrior Lady doesn't target because when you activate the effect, you aren't selecting anything to target with the effect. The only reference D.D. Warrior Lady's effect has to another monster is the fact the monster has to be involved in battle with her or not.

You don't see any card text with the words, Choose, Designate, Target, or Select in D.D. Warrior Lady and Spirit Reaper's card text. Thus, they don't target.

They aren't illogical rulings. They make perfect sence with the game mechanics that have been established for what define a targetting effect. Those mechanics have been defined for about four years now.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Kuriboh doesn't target because it doesn't affect the monsters.

D.D. Warrior lady doesn't target because it is a trigger effect. Even optional trigger effects are not "manually" activated. So in reality you're not making any choice about which monster are affected.

Card like Trap Hole, Sakuretsu Armor, target monsters because you "manually" activate them to affect that one mosnter.

Patrician of Darkness, does NOT redirect attacks. IT has absolutely no effect on monsters, but rather it changes the game mechanincs of how an attack work. (You make the decision of an attack target instead of your opponent.)

 

[Tkwiget]

Actually you do manually activate D.D. Warrior Lady. However, the fact of the matter is you aren't selecting which monsters are being removed from play when you activate the effect.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Actually you do manually activate D.D. Warrior Lady. However, the fact of the matter is you aren't selecting which monsters are being removed from play when you activate the effect.

No, you don't.

Manually activated monster effects are ignition effects , and multi-trigger effects.

You may NEVER manually chain with a spell-speed 1 effect.

Trigger effects can be chained to each other because they are sequenced automatically. When their triggers are met the sequence starts automatically.

With Optional Trigger effects they want to activate themselves, but they need 'permission' you have to give them the go-ahead for them to activat, and if you're too late, you don't give them permission in time, you miss the timing.

Trigger effects, whether mandatory, or optional, are still "automatic." You don't choose to make the events happen.

 

[Tkwiget]

You attack my face down D.D. Warrior Lady with Gemini Elf. Damage Calculations are done, D.D. Warrior Lady is considered destroyed as a result of battle. I choose to activate her effect.

I'm not chaining to anything. D.D. Warrior Lady will never chain to any card effect ever. So you do manually activate D.D. Warrior Lady. It just happens to be in the Damage Step when you do it.

Optional Trigger effects are merely effects that give you that choice to activate or not. It isn't like a card is asking for permission to activate or not. It's merely a time where the player or controller of the effect can activate it or not at a certain time that the effect can activate and resolve.

 

[novastar]

Their is nothing mechanically preventing a Trigger from targeting...simple as that. Trigger simply means forced activation, that does not in any way shape or form mean that you cannot choose a target at activation.

Infact Mobius is a perfect example.

Simple.

Kuriboh does not affect a card itself, it affect Battle Damage.

D.D. Warrior Lady do not target because the effect itself has already chosen the target, you are simply choosing whether to use the effect or not (and yes the triggering portion somewhat has to do with it).

Trap Hole and Sakuretsu target because you are still manually (they are pure manual effects) choosing which monster is destroyed and they destroy 1 monster.

Patrician of Darkness does not target simply because it is a Continuous Effect, if it were a Trigger it WOULD target.

 

[Digital Jedi]

D.d. warrior lady doesn't target for the same reason drillroid doesn't target. The effect's selction is incedental to the attack. You chose which monster to attack, you did not choose which monster the effect would affect.

 

[branas]

You don't see any card text with the words, Choose, Designate, Target, or Select in D.D. Warrior Lady and Spirit Reaper's card text. Thus, they don't target.

Patrician of Darkness
As long as this monster remains face-up on the field, the controller of this card selects the targets of their opponent's attacks.

i see in the text words "select" and "target" but patrician doesn't target
i see word "select" in soul exchange and it targets

i see "select 1 monster" in last turn but doesn't target
i see "select 1 face-up monster" in dora of fate and it targets

Trap Hole and Sakuretsu target because you are still manually (they are pure manual effects) choosing which monster is destroyed and they destroy 1 monster.

you're not exactly choosing what monster to destroy.
you just activate sakuretsu or traphole.there is no
choice or targeting made by you.
the monster normally-summoned is the only one yo can destroy
with traphole, and the monster currently attacking is the
only one you can destroy by sakuretsu.
if they're the only one, i really see no choice of targets
made by you.

we all know saku and hole are targeting, we all know lady and
kuriboh aren't.but sometimes it doesn't make any sense to me...

D.D. Warrior Lady doesn't target for the same reason Drillroid doesn't target. The effect's selction is incedental to the attack. You chose which monster to attack, you did not choose which monster the effect would affect.

this has the most sense anyone said here.thank you.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

you're not exactly choosing what monster to destroy.
you just activate sakuretsu or traphole.there is no
choice or targeting made by you.
the monster normally-summoned is the only one yo can destroy
with traphole, and the monster currently attacking is the
only one you can destroy by sakuretsu.
if they're the only one, i really see no choice of targets
made by you.

You're under no obligation to flip trap hole or sakuretsu armor face-up. Therfore it is your choice to target that monster.

D.D. Warrior Lady, you do not choose to trigger its effect, therefore you did not make a choice.

 

[novastar]

D.D. Warrior Lady, you do not choose to trigger its effect, therefore you did not make a choice.

Yea, with D.D. it is really a nuance here, it is partly because of the triggering and partly because you don't actually get to choose which monster's take part in the effect.

 

[squid]

that is a bit confusing next to Sakuretsu Armor

1. Sakuretsu Armor
your opponent attacks, you have the option to activate the effect, once the condition of attacking has occurred. It targets, but you only have the option of destroying the monster that attacked.

2. D.D. Warrior Lady
Your opponent attacks, and you have the option to activate the effect, once the condition of having battled with a monster has occurred. You only have the option of removing the monster it battled with, but it does NOT target.

There does seem to be a bit of discrepancy there, no?

 

[slither]

It might, but the way I see it is this, Sakuretsu Armor, you are manually choosing a monster which attacked. D.D. Warrior Lady just tells herself, "hey I got attacked... should I use my effect on this guy?"

 

[novastar]

that is a bit confusing next to Sakuretsu Armor

1. Sakuretsu Armor
your opponent attacks, you have the option to activate the effect, once the condition of attacking has occurred. It targets, but you only have the option of destroying the monster that attacked.

2. D.D. Warrior Lady
Your opponent attacks, and you have the option to activate the effect, once the condition of having battled with a monster has occurred. You only have the option of removing the monster it battled with, but it does NOT target.

There does seem to be a bit of discrepancy there, no?

That's where the forced activation of D.D. comes into play, where D.D.'s effect is not really a manual effect.

So it's a combination of the effect being forced, and not being able to really choose the participants.

It's a little wierd, but that's how they want it.