TER priority question (rather involved)

[whitefireblade]

I know TER, in fact, has priority but that doesn't mean that as a player I can't respond to it being used, can I?

For example, can I use book of moon or ring of destruction to stop TER's effect by turning it fd (I'm pretty sure this works) or destroying it (not so sure here.)

A friend of mine posted this question asking if TER has priority but that doesn't help at all (he thinks priority = unstoppability.)


Similiar question

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Blowback dragon is summoned. Player declares priority and opponent responds with ring/book. Can the turn player still activate Blowback's effect? (I'm under the impression he needs to remain on the field to do such a thing- face up as well.)


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I summon out Mobius with a tribute and the opponent responds with ring/book. I can still use Mobius' effect because it doesn't require him to remain face up, just for a sucessful normal summon. Is that right?
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The third example is the third kind of monster (that I can think of.) Say my opponent brings out exiled force and uses his igniton effect tributing him. I can't use ring/book since exiled is already dead and I'm chaining to the destroy a monster effect, nothing else right?

Which is why Tribe can't be stopped by turning him fd (card id discarded already) and cards required to pay lifepoints can't be stopped as well. Is that correct?



I just want to clear up this whole priority thing. Sorry if this takes awhile to answer.

 

[helpoemer316]

I know TER, in fact, has priority but that doesn't mean that as a player I can't respond to it being used, can I?

For example, can I use book of moon or ring of destruction to stop TER's effect by turning it fd (I'm pretty sure this works) or destroying it (not so sure here.)

A friend of mine posted this question asking if TER has priority but that doesn't help at all (he thinks priority = unstoppability.)

The player who summoned TER has the priority to activate TER's effect, but since TER's effect is a spell speed 1 effect, it can be chained to. If you chain to TER's effect with let's say Ring of Destruction, the chain would look like this.

Link 1: TER's effect is activated.
Link 2: Ring of Destruction is activated.

Neither player adds anything else to the chain so the chain resolves.

Link 2: Ring of Destruction resolves first destroying TER.
Link 1: TER's effect attempts to resolve but cannot resolve since you cannot not equip a monster that is not present on the field and therefore it doesn't resolve (or in a sense fizzles as many people like to say).

The end result was that TER's effect couldn't resolve, but that didn't mean that it didn't have priority to activate, it just wasn't able to resolve fully upon the resolution step. The same would go for Book of Moon, you can't equip a f/d monster with an equip card so it wouldn't resolve.

Similiar question

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Blowback dragon is summoned. Player declares priority and opponent responds with ring/book. Can the turn player still activate Blowback's effect? (I'm under the impression he needs to remain on the field to do such a thing- face up as well.)

Yes, the player who summoned Blowback Dragon has the priority to activate it's effect before the opponent can respond with a trap card. But the end result for this one is a little different then TER.

Link 1: Blowback Dragon's effect is activated.
Link 2: Ring of Destruction is activated.

Neither player adds anything else to the chain.

Link 2: Ring of Destruction resolves destroying Blowback and dealing damage to both players.
Link 1: Blowback Dragon's effect resolves, since Blowback Dragon's effect doesn't require to equip a monster like TER did or doesn't require itself to be on the field at resolution, it's effect will resolve as normal since it was still activated. So the player who played Blowback Dragon will flip the coin and choose the card as normal.

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I summon out Mobius with a tribute and the opponent responds with ring/book. I can still use Mobius' effect because it doesn't require him to remain face up, just for a sucessful normal summon. Is that right?

This one is a little different then the other two. Mobius's effect doesn't activate optionally like any other effect. It's not like a normal Ignition effect monster is what I'm getting at here. It triggers upon the summoning of Mobius.

So in a sense the player who summons Mobius uses their priority with the activation of Mobius's effect upon summoning, the opponent cannot force them out of Mobius's effect at all, so in the case that you asked about above. The player who summons Mobius would get priority with Mobius's effect being link 1 on the chain (and you select the cards at activation that would be destroyed) so the chain would look like this...

Link 1: Mobius's effect activates and the player selects 2 m/t cards on the field as targets.
Link 2: Ring of Destruction is activated (for the fun of it, let's say it was one of the m/t cards chosen).

Neither player adds to the chain.

Link 2: Ring of Destruction resolves destroying Mobius and dealing damage.
Link 1: Mobius's effect resolves and destroys the last remaining target it had targetted upon activation.

This isn't a normal ignition effect though, it's an optional trigger effect that activations upon summoning and the player who summons it immediately chooses two cards and then Mobius's effect starts off the chain as link 1.

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The third example is the third kind of monster (that I can think of.) Say my opponent brings out exiled force and uses his igniton effect tributing him. I can't use ring/book since exiled is already dead and I'm chaining to the destroy a monster effect, nothing else right?

Essentially you're right here, you can't chain and target the Exiled Force since it's gone at activation, but you can chain your Ring/Book to target another monster on the field in response to Exiled's effect activating, there's no need for a chain here, just know that you can chain to basically any speed 1 effect with those two cards.

Which is why Tribe can't be stopped by turning him fd (card id discarded already) and cards required to pay lifepoints can't be stopped as well. Is that correct?

Well... not really... basically I explained this a little more up above after the TER question. TER is an ignition effect itself, yet it can be stopped if the chain cannot resolve properly. The same would go for any other ignition effect monster. But most ignition effects do not require the monster that activated that effect to be on the field for it to resolve in the resolution step, TER is one of those few exceptions but it's an obvious one as well, you obviously can't equip something that's not there or a f/d monster. Any other ignition effect that has an actual "cost" is no different then one that doesn't have an obvious cost, that was the reason why UDE changed from "cost effects" to "ignition effects" to try and stop that confusion. Tribe would resolve as normal even if destroyed by Ring of Destruction of Book of Mooned in the chain because it doesn't require itself to be f/u on the field at the resolution of it's effect, the same would hold true for Black Luster Soldier-Envoy, Blowback Dragon, Barrel Dragon, etc.

I hope that helps you a little...

 

[skey23]

I know TER, in fact, has priority but that doesn't mean that as a player I can't respond to it being used, can I?

To start things off right here...NONE of the monsters have priority. The TURN PLAYER has the priority to activate the appropriate effect. Yes, the opponent can chain to that effect.

For example, can I use book of moon or ring of destruction to stop TER's effect by turning it fd (I'm pretty sure this works) or destroying it (not so sure here.)

Yes, in both cases TER's effect will 'fizzle' or 'disappear' since he MUST remain face-up on the SAME side of the field for his effect to resolve properly.

A friend of mine posted this question asking if TER has priority but that doesn't help at all (he thinks priority = unstoppability.)

Priority definitely does NOT mean unstoppable. It just means the turn player gets the 1st chance to activate an effect, that's basically it. (super super short version...lol)

Blowback dragon is summoned. Player declares priority and opponent responds with ring/book. Can the turn player still activate Blowback's effect? (I'm under the impression he needs to remain on the field to do such a thing- face up as well.)

As far as I know, I could be wrong here, he does not need to remain face-up or on the field for his effect to resolve, so chaining BoM or Ring will not stop his effect from resolving.

I summon out Mobius with a tribute and the opponent responds with ring/book. I can still use Mobius' effect because it doesn't require him to remain face up, just for a sucessful normal summon. Is that right?

This is correct. His effect WILL resolve even if he's flipped face-down or removed from the field.

The third example is the third kind of monster (that I can think of.) Say my opponent brings out exiled force and uses his igniton effect tributing him. I can't use ring/book since exiled is already dead and I'm chaining to the destroy a monster effect, nothing else right?

This is a bit more tricky. You CAN chain Ring or BoM to Exiled effect, but I don't believe you can target Exiled since he's in the Graveyard already. You CAN target any other appropriate monsters.

Which is why Tribe can't be stopped by turning him fd (card id discarded already) and cards required to pay lifepoints can't be stopped as well. Is that correct?

Once the cost is paid, it's paid, you don't get it back. So chaining BoM or Ring to Tribe will not stop it's effect. Now chaining Divine Wrath WILL stop it's effect AND they lose the discarded card as well, since it's a cost.


Hope this helps!

 

[masterwoo0]

I know TER, in fact, has priority but that doesn't mean that as a player I can't respond to it being used, can I?

You can "respond" to most anything, as long as you give the turn player his opportunity to use his priority to activate effects or start a chain.

For example, can I use Book of Moon or Ring of Destruction to stop TER's effect by turning it fd (I'm pretty sure this works) or destroying it (not so sure here.)

TER's effect would resolve, but since he is face-down, the effect of equipping a monster Disappears and the targeted monster remains on the controlling players side of the field.

A friend of mine posted this question asking if TER has priority but that doesn't help at all (he thinks priority = unstoppability.)

Priority only means that the turn player must be allowed to activate an effect or start a chain, or play/set a Monster before the opponent can respond. It doesnt mean that whatever they do can't be countered.


Similiar question

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Blowback Dragon is summoned. Player declares priority and opponent responds with ring/book. Can the turn player still activate Blowback's effect? (I'm under the impression he needs to remain on the field to do such a thing- face up as well.)

Same as above only the effect resolves with the target being destroyed if the coin toss is correct. In the case of Spirit Reaper, it would be destroyed regardless since it was targeted.
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I summon out Mobius with a tribute and the opponent responds with ring/book. I can still use Mobius' effect because it doesn't require him to remain face up, just for a sucessful normal summon. Is that right?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The third example is the third kind of monster (that I can think of.) Say my opponent brings out Exiled Force and uses his igniton effect tributing him. I can't use ring/book since exiled is already dead and I'm chaining to the destroy a monster effect, nothing else right?

That's correct.

Which is why Tribe can't be stopped by turning him fd (card id discarded already) and cards required to pay lifepoints can't be stopped as well. Is that correct?

Again that is correct on Tribe....

I just want to clear up this whole priority thing. Sorry if this takes awhile to answer.

Hope that does it for you.

 

[Digital Jedi]

I know TER, in fact, has priority but that doesn't mean that as a player I can't respond to it being used, can I?

For example, can I use Book of Moon or Ring of Destruction to stop TER's effect by turning it fd (I'm pretty sure this works) or destroying it (not so sure here.)

A friend of mine posted this question asking if TER has priority but that doesn't help at all (he thinks priority = unstoppability.)

TER doesn't have priority. The turn player has priority. If it's your turn and you control TER or Relinquished you have priority to activate his effect or the effect of another card you control first. Thats all. Once you activate an effect you have passed the chain link on to your opponent. If your opponent chains to TER's effect then the chain resolves like it normaly would any other time. All priority means is that you, as the turn player, get to activate effects first. Chains resolve as normal.



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Blowback Dragon is summoned. Player declares priority and opponent responds with ring/book. Can the turn player still activate Blowback's effect? (I'm under the impression he needs to remain on the field to do such a thing- face up as well.)

The coin-flips are not part of the actiovation of his effect. So he would need to be fac-up to resolve his effect. Cahin resolves as normal.


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I summon out Mobius with a tribute and the opponent responds with ring/book. I can still use Mobius' effect because it doesn't require him to remain face up, just for a sucessful normal summon. Is that right?

Right. But I forget why. Maybe someone else will cover it.
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The third example is the third kind of monster (that I can think of.) Say my opponent brings out Exiled Force and uses his igniton effect tributing him. I can't use ring/book since exiled is already dead and I'm chaining to the destroy a monster effect, nothing else right?

You can chain to the effect, but you cannot target Exiled because he's no longer on the field. His cost immediatly removed him from the field so he's not sitting there awaiting the chain.

Which is why Tribe can't be stopped by turning him fd (card id discarded already) and cards required to pay lifepoints can't be stopped as well. Is that correct?

Not exactly. Tribe resolves because his effect use the chain just like any other card. Pay the cost and wait for resoulution. The difference between each of these monsters is because there are field requirements for some of thier resolutions and none for others.

 

[Bill]

Then why is it that if this scenario were to play through, Chaos Emperor Dragon would still blowup the field?

Example:

Player A Summons Chaos Emperor Dragon.
Player A uses his priority to activate Chaos Emperor Dragon's effect.
Player B chains Ring of Destruction to the activation.

Chain resolves:

Player B's Ring of Destruction would activate.
Player A's Chaos Emperor Dragon cannot activate in the graveyard thus it's effect would not take place.

Thats what someone said above in regard to Thousand-Eyes Restrict, but why is it that Chaos Emperor Dragon would still activate?

 

[densetsu_x]

"Thousand-Eyes Restrict" needs to be on the field in order for its effect to resolve. If he's not on the field or face down, the effect Disappears because it is impossible for the selected monster to become equipped to him.

"Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End" has no such restriction. Once his effect activates, it doesn't matter what happens to him, whether he's sent to the Graveyard or Removed from play first. Everything else is still going *BOOM*.

 

[Bill]

Would this then be the same for any other payment effect? {Ex. Tribe Infecting Virus}

Also, what would happen in the case of Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning if Torrential Tribute was activated, because there is no payment effect there, but the monster that Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning is targetting would still be removed. Thus leaves the question how would it relate to this problem.

 

[densetsu_x]

What question?

Once an effect activates, it tries to resolve regardless of what happens to the monster. Now if the effect is dependant upon the monster staying face-up on the field (like "Thousand-Eyes Restrict" or "Relinquished" then when the effect tries to resolve, it "fizzles". But it still tried to resolve. In most cases though, it will resolve successfully even if the creature is destroyed, flipped, removed from play, etc.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Would this then be the same for any other payment effect? {Ex. Tribe Infecting Virus}

Also, what would happen in the case of Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning if Torrential Tribute was activated, because there is no payment effect there, but the monster that Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning is targetting would still be removed. Thus leaves the question how would it relate to this problem.

It has nothing to do with payment effects. It has to do with the chain resolving normaly. Thousand-Eyes Restrict cannot equip a monster to himself if he's not on the field or face-down, can he? No. His effect requires him to be on the field at the reiolution of his activated effect. The two Chaos Envoys do not. Just think about when a Torrential Tribute is activated and you chain MST to it targeting the same Trap. Does Torrential get destroyed? Yes. Does it get negated? No. It's effect is already activated and awaiting resolution on the chain. Now what if you chain MST to destroy a United We Stand at activation? United has to remian on the field to do anything. The difference in the effect is what determins the chain resolution. Not the cost of the effect.

 

[John Danker]

The coin-flips are not part of the actiovation of his effect. So he would need to be fac-up to resolve his effect. Cahin resolves as normal.

Are you saying if Blowback Dragon's effect has been activated and in response to the activation a trap card is activated (and resolves) that destroys him before resolution the owner of Blowback Dragon doesn't get to resolve it's effect......or are you saying once Blowback Dragon's effect is activated even if the monster is destroyed the chain resolves normally? <not sure I understand which direction you're going here>

 

[Bill]

Are you saying if Blowback Dragon's effect has been activated and in response to the activation a trap card is activated (and resolves) that destroys him before resolution the owner of Blowback Dragon doesn't get to resolve it's effect......or are you saying once Blowback Dragon's effect is activated even if the monster is destroyed the chain resolves normally? <not sure I understand which direction you're going here>

I think he is saying that the effect will still happen if a Ring of Destruction is used, but not if a Book of Moon is used. Thats the correct ruling. Thanks for the explanation though Digital Jedi <3.

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

I think he is saying that the effect will still happen if a Ring of Destruction is used, but not if a Book of Moon is used. Thats the correct ruling. Thanks for the explanation though Digital Jedi <3.

Even if Blowback Dragon is placed face-down after effect activation, it will still resolve.

 

[John Danker]

I know what the correct ruling is, I just couldn't tell by his wording which way he was ruling it. <shrug> As long as everyone else understands the correct ruling is what is important.

 

[skey23]

I know what the correct ruling is, I just couldn't tell by his wording which way he was ruling it. <shrug> As long as everyone else understands the correct ruling is what is important.

It would appear that some DON'T know what the correct ruling is.

So to end the confusion would you kindly restate it for everyone's reading enjoyment please!

 

[Bill]

Can someone explain to me why it is that Blowback Dragon does not have to remain faceup for it's effect to resolve?

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

Can someone explain to me why it is that Blowback Dragon does not have to remain faceup for it's effect to resolve?

Probably not the best example in the world, but it's like Spell and Traps cards on a chain.

There effects remains on the field until the chain resolves, so even destroying Mystical Space Typhoon, it will still resolve.

Mystical Space Typhoon is like Blowback Dragon. They don't need to be face-up on the field for the effect to resolve if activated.

And as you know, Continuous Effect activated in a chain must remain on the field until they resolve, or else they will not resolve as they must resolve on the field.

Imperial Order is like Jinzo. If they are not the field, there effects aren't applied.

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

Maybe a better example would be of Exiled Force.

Exiled Force
Offer face-up this card on your side of the field as a Tribute to destroy 1 monster on the field. If this card is used for a Tribute Summon or this card is offered as a Tribute due to other card effects, this card's effect is not activated.

It does not to be face-up on the field to resolve, as it is already in the graveyard.

 

[John Danker]

I think you've explained quite nicely, thank you.

 

[Digital Jedi]

That is an interesting point about Blowback Dragon. According to the rulings the coin flip takes place after activation. I have always gleaned from that ruling that the effect needed to be face-up on the field to resolve properly. But I can see where I may have been in error. Still I think it's odd to get a coin flip for a face-down or destroyed monster.