The End Of Anubis & Exiled Force

[daleotar]

In the game F.A.Q., in the second paragraph the text about Skill Drain says:

? "Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects ?that activate in the Graveyard?, such as "Witch of the Black Forest", "Sangan", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Exiled Force", "Sinister Serpent", and "Vampire Lord".

That text says in a clear form that the ?effect? of Exiled Force activates in the graveyard in a very textual form, that which confirmate that as the effect of Exiled Force activates in the graveyard, The End of Anubis negates this effect.

To confirm these text, I say that one thing in many cards is activate the effect, other thing is the cost of effect's activation, and other thing is the activation of the card; if a card have a cost to activate, the player pays first the cost and if the opponent not chain a counter trap, its ?effect? resolves in a correct form, that is to say, first goes the cost and after the activation of the ?effect? of the card, ?that is different that the activation of a card?, that is to say that Exiled Force effect have a cost, and then, if the opponent not chain Divine Wrath, the effect activates normally, and then, at that time, Exiled Force is in the graveyard when the effect of destroy 1 monster on the field is activated.

Please respond me in this forum, because,in tournament many times I have lost because according to the approach of a judge the "effect" of Exiled Force not activates in the graveyard.

Please, is better if an official upperdeck judge responds me, to confirm my question in legal form.

David Tarazona
YU-GI-OH UpperDeck Judge LEVEL 2

Thank you

 

[novastar]

"destroy 1 target card"

Hehe, I believe there is a grammar mistake.

Heh, if it is grammatically incorrect, then virtually every targeted card in the Vs. System is grammatically incorrect. The idea with card text is to say as much as you can with as little text as possible.

This effect can only be used once per turn during your Main Phase. Target 1 card on your opponent's side of the field. Toss a coin 3 times. If at least 2 of the results are Heads, destroy that card.

Lets look at it for fun, not to blast in any way.

Firstly, you would not put the effect restriction ("This effect can only be used once per turn during your Main Phase.") at the beginning of the text, it always goes at the end, after the effect text.

Secondly, i said in one sentence what you said in two. There is no need to specifically state that you need to target, just putting the word "target" should be clear enough.

"Target 1 card on your opponent's side of the field.[...]If at least 2 of the results are Heads, destroy that card."

"If at least 2 of the results are Heads, destroy 1 target card on your opponent's side of the field."

See the difference? The second example is more concise, which is what you want. It is also grammatically correct, the word "target" is only used to indicate that the "card" is already pre-designated when activated.

So the effect could be written as such and it would never be misunderstood.

"Toss a coin 3 times, If at least 2 of the results are Heads, destroy target card on your opponent's side of the field. This effect can only be used once per turn during your Main Phase."

Infact you don't even need the "1" text, as "destroy target card" is already singular and implies that it is one card that is destroyed.

So all u have is the entire effect text in green, which should all be one sentence (no periods needed) seperated by commas since the effect resolution is conditional. Then the effect restriction at the end in blue.

 

[novastar]

It's the dependence on "If" regarding the selection of a card which makes it seem contrary to the rulings, not the position of the statement within the card's text. It's the word select they need to drop for something else, your suggestion sounded much clearer as to how the card should work.

I totally see what you are saying.

The "if" indicates a conditional resolution. However, since you are "selecting" a card to destroy on the opponent's side, the choice as in most effects needs to be prechosen anyway even if the condition is not met.

It could say "Select 1 card on the opponent's side of the field.[...] blah blah"

The text, as written, is an attempt to be concise, its not ment to spoon feed.

I have just never been a fan of the "select" wording.

 

[jdos]

Back to the original topic...here's the latest. It just gets weirder and weirder. Is weirder even a word?

QUESTION:
Why is this? The effect of "Exiled Force" neither designates a card in the
graveyard nor activates in the graveyard.
================================================== ========================
ANSWER:
"Exiled Force", when Tributed for its effect, most certainly DOES activate in
the Graveyard. This is the reason that its effect still activates if "Skill
Drain" is on the field.

Hence, its effect does not activate if "The End of Anubis" is on the field.

Kevin Tewart
Game Designer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment

I posted this followup question:

Would this also apply to other cards that (can) tribute themselves for their effects, such as Cannon Soldier, Kaibaman, The Creator Incarnate, Hand of Nephthys, Red Eyes B. Chick, etc?

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

I have a question jdos, about the response you recieved.

When you stated the reply about Cannon Soldier and the effects alike, has that part of that reply been responded to yet? Or you've sent a sperate e-mail after the Exiled Force response?

 

[DimensionalWarrior]

"Exiled Force", when Tributed for its effect, most certainly DOES activate in
the Graveyard. This is the reason that its effect still activates if "Skill
Drain" is on the field.

Hence, its effect does not activate if "The End of Anubis" is on the field.

I'm sure everyone of us here knows that Exiled's effect works under Skill Drain because Exiled Force is no longer on the field when it resolves!

Maybe there is a problem concerning game mechanics. Which of these is correct:
1) You pay the cost and then activate the card
2) You pay the cost when activating the card (both at the same time)
3) You activate the card, then you pay the cost

(I'm pretty sure we know 3 is not the answer )

 

[Digital Jedi]

Well, I'm not suprised. It's not the first time Konami/UDE has changed the basics of what we understood without really telling anybody. It seems they just put in rulings we think are erroneous and come to find out a major revision was made to the game without ever announcing it. They expect us to dumb our way through everything. Disrespectful.

That said, Exiled Force is a Graveyard activated effect. Well . . .it is now anyway. We're just gonna have to get used to it.

That and abuse the heck out of it.

 

[jdos]

I have a question jdos, about the response you recieved.

When you stated the reply about Cannon Soldier and the effects alike, has that part of that reply been responded to yet? Or you've sent a sperate e-mail after the Exiled Force response?

Sorry about the confusion. The first quote is what is on the list right now. The 2nd quote is what I just submitted in response and has not yet been addressed.

I'm sure everyone of us here knows that Exiled's effect works under Skill Drain because Exiled Force is no longer on the field when it resolves!

That's what I would have thought as well. I honestly don't see how this ruling can stand.

 

[Raijinili]

'Scuse me. Unless you can find an official ruling where The End of Anubis DIDN'T negate self-tribute effects, it's not a revision.

And, gah, shut up about Barrel Dragon. It's off-topic, and they decided that it was a targeting effect long before Blowback Dragon. They're not planning to change it.

 

[DimensionalWarrior]

Message Deleted in order to avoid some issues...Moderator, if you see this, please delete this post, thanks !

 

[Raijinili]

OH NO! Another "Konami ga sou itterukara"!
Well maybe not, maybe it's a "Netrep ga sou itterukara" !
Let's wait for the response in the Judge List...

What the heck was the point of that post?

The judge list already gave a response. In fact, it was posted seven posts above yours. Thank you for not reading.

 

[DimensionalWarrior]

Anyways, If you didn't knew, "Konami ga sou itterukara" is something originally posted by daivahataka and means "Konami said so".

I am awaiting for the response of the second part of the mail that jdos posted on the Judge List:

Would this also apply to other cards that (can) tribute themselves for their effects, such as Cannon Soldier, Kaibaman, The Creator Incarnate, Hand of Nephthys, Red Eyes B. Chick, etc?

 

[Blackscorp]

Well they answered my question about Cannon Soldier

Would the same apply if "Cannon Soldier" is tributed by his own effect while "The End of Anubis" is face-up on the field?



Answer:

In this situation "Cannon Soldier's" effect would be negated.

----------------------------------
Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrepâ„¢
CurtisSchultz_netrep@hotmail.com

 

[Raijinili]

And even now, I do not see the point of your post. Why should we sit around on our hands when we can wonder and question on the board?

On-topic: According to the JERP, The End of Anubis can't negate "sacrifice" effects. Although I'm pretty sure I said that.

Kevin, who gave the second response, is NOT a Netrep. I don't think either of them would give such a strange ruling if it wasn't from Konami.

 

[novastar]

There is only 2 possible explainations.

1.) Konami is giving mixed signals and the rulings are erroneous.
2.) This is a mechanic change that is slowly going to seep in.

Although the first is highly possible, (because i really have no respect for Konami at all) i think it's the second.

This might have something to do with the "strange" Ignition Effect of Kaibaman and the creater incarnate. They might activate in the graveyard now so that it makes more sense to tribute them face-down.

Bottom Line: what exactly is the Cannon Soldier ruling trying to say? that when it tributes itself it is a graveyard effect, but when it tributes a different monster it is a field effect?

Ridiculous to say the least, I can't even find the words describe it....

This is going to be a judging nightmare....

 

[jdos]

Wwell they answered my question about Cannon Soldier

This is where it all breaks down for me. How in the he11 can this be right? The End of Anubis specifically says "targets" or "activates" in the graveyard. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Cannon Soldier activates on the field. What if Cannon Soldier tributes another monster? Where is it "activating" then? On the field of course. So if he tributes himself, it's still activated on the field. They are ruling The End of Anubis like a graveyard Skill Drain now...like no matter where the effect activates, as long as it ends up in the grave before resolution, it get's negated...but that's not what The End of Anubis' text says. This ruling about Cannon Soldier makes even less sense than the one on Exiled Force. Now I guess Cannon Soldier is activated in the graveyard? Obviously not. That's just a silly ruling.

 

[DimensionalWarrior]

Bottom Line: what exactly is the Cannon Soldier ruling trying to say? that when it tributes itself it is a graveyard effect, but when it tributes a different monster it is a field effect?

I guess...yes...

I'm sorry, but I have to ask this: if you have Banisher of the Light and you tribute exiled to destroy The End of Anubis, would it's effect be negated?
I guess no, since it never made it to the graveyard and it activated in the RFP zone...Never heard of something like this before

What about Peten the Dark Clown?

 

[StRiKe_NiNjA]

I guess...yes...

I'm sorry, but I have to ask this: if you have Banisher of the Light and you tribute exiled to destroy The End of Anubis, would it's effect be negated?
I guess no, since it never made it to the graveyard and it activated in the RFP zone...Never heard of something like this before

What about Peten the Dark Clown?

Exiled Force would resolve, and destroy The End of Anubis, as it never makes it to the graveyard, but activates while Removed From Play.

The End of Anubis is a Continuous Effect, so it does not work like Skill Drain. Peten the Dark Clown will be negated.

 

[skey23]

I just had a weird thought.

Let's look at it this way. Exiled force: " Tribute this face-up card. Destroy 1 monster on the field." It's not ONE effect, it's TWO and what Konami is saying is that the "destroy 1 monster" effect is what is being negated. Since it's the one that is activating while "Exiled Force" is in the graveyard.

The same would be said for "Cannon Soldier". The "inflict 500 points of damage" may be being considered a 'second' effect by Konami now.

Just my wierd thoughts...lol.

 

[MadHatter]

actually, if this holds out to an extreme, then you could chain Ring of Destruction to Tribe-Infecting Virus' effect of calling Fiend while EoA is face-up, and since Tribe is in the Graveyard, Tribe will be negated.

Actually, this is a great question now. By this new logic, EoA should negate it.

Very bizarre ruling. I gotta admit, as a judge, it really bites at ones judging enthusiasm when these rule changes come from out of nowhere with no notice or explanation and then when we ask we're kind of treated like, "you should have known that all along."

I'll rule it like this, but I don't like it.

 

[novastar]

That logic is not the same as the ruling. By the time you can chain with Ring, the effect of Tribe would have already been activated.

The idea here is the cost is paid before the effect is considered "activated"

So at the point when all cost is paid and the target is chosen, the effect is considered activated and Exiled is in the graveyard, so it is activated from the graveyard.

Which of course is completely incorrect...