Does the effect of The End of Anubis negate the effect of Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6? I mean the effect of summoning Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8.
The End of Anubis VS Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6
- Thread starter Madma
- Start date
I see that Deathjester already posted the new ruling, so...are we REALLY REALLY REALLY sure that The End of Anubis won't negate the effect of Exiled Force and Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6?? Or do we have to wait for Curtis' answer?
Deathjester
New Member
That's the ruling on UDE's site, so I say we can be quite sure of it 
daivahataka
Gold Member
Right so, all we need now is for Curtis to issue a retraction...
And that blasted Skill Drain ruling to be fixed.
As the key problem for most players with Curtis' ruling was that he said that Exiled Force activates in the Graveyard, as does the Skill Drain ruling, when most of us feel it activates on the field when you tribute it.
At least this ruling on EoA seems to be a short term patch around the problem, though I suspect it will come back to haunt them until they deal with it properly.
And that blasted Skill Drain ruling to be fixed.
As the key problem for most players with Curtis' ruling was that he said that Exiled Force activates in the Graveyard, as does the Skill Drain ruling, when most of us feel it activates on the field when you tribute it.
At least this ruling on EoA seems to be a short term patch around the problem, though I suspect it will come back to haunt them until they deal with it properly.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Maybe I'm just missing something, and maybe I'm just being to literal, but being that its a 2 sentence statement, I don't see where any "effect" activates until it hits the Graveyard.
I know in a earlier post I said that it activated on the field, but maybe that is more of a term than an action.
I see the dead horse, and I pull out my stick...
We have already stated that if Exiled Force does not go to the Graveyard, there is no effect, so if it "does" activate on the field, is it just the resolution that must be in the Graveyard (that is, as long as the Skill Drain ruling holds to be true)?
Also, if the Skill Drain ruling is erroneous, does that place Exiled Force outside of effects like Witch, Sangan, Rat, etc?
I know in a earlier post I said that it activated on the field, but maybe that is more of a term than an action.
I see the dead horse, and I pull out my stick...
We have already stated that if Exiled Force does not go to the Graveyard, there is no effect, so if it "does" activate on the field, is it just the resolution that must be in the Graveyard (that is, as long as the Skill Drain ruling holds to be true)?
Also, if the Skill Drain ruling is erroneous, does that place Exiled Force outside of effects like Witch, Sangan, Rat, etc?
daivahataka
Gold Member
Where on Exiled Force does it mention a need to go to the Graveyard to activate, it just says "tribute", so why can't it activate if Banisher of the Light in on the field? As such this would introduce another type of activation, beyond the usual; Field, Graveyard and Removed From Play, as we'd now have monsters who's effect's activation would simply depend on where they end up not where they were when their effect was triggered/activated. Witch and the others all mention the Graveyard so they do activate there.masterwoo0 said:
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
You know, as well as I do, that many card effects have had their text shortened as it doesnt make sense to state something that we should already know to be true, as well as some cards that will never have a clear text. Biggest and best example is Ultimate Offering.
Card Text
At the cost of 500 Life Points per monster, a player is allowed an extra Normal Summon or Set.
Where on here does it say that only the controlling player may use, as well as during the opponents Battle Phase?
I guess we should already know this answer, because of what similar effect?????
My point is, just because it doesnt say it, doesnt mean that it isnt true. Skill Drain is either right, or wrong, but at least it's in writing, and now has to be proven wrong, which means even if we think it's wrong, we still have to rule that Exiled activates in the Graveyard because of Skill Drain, regardless of what EoA says. Could it be that it's still wrong instead of SD??
Card Text
At the cost of 500 Life Points per monster, a player is allowed an extra Normal Summon or Set.
Where on here does it say that only the controlling player may use, as well as during the opponents Battle Phase?
I guess we should already know this answer, because of what similar effect?????
My point is, just because it doesnt say it, doesnt mean that it isnt true. Skill Drain is either right, or wrong, but at least it's in writing, and now has to be proven wrong, which means even if we think it's wrong, we still have to rule that Exiled activates in the Graveyard because of Skill Drain, regardless of what EoA says. Could it be that it's still wrong instead of SD??
daivahataka
Gold Member
Oh, I get what you mean now; we may not like it but until UDE says otherwise we've got to accept it. I've had to explain that to others about Exiled Force too, though we all may feel the ruling is so wrong it deserves to be cast into the fiery pits of hell we can't rule otherwise until UDE says so.masterwoo0 said:
Honestly, mechanically that makes no sense.
Non-Continuous Effects do not follow the card that they activate from to it's destination. Once activated, the effect and the card become two seperate entities, and wherever an effect activates, it also resolves from the same location, this is general TCG mechanics.
The only effects that are tied to the card they generate from are Continuous Effects, and those only exist as long as the card exists, and be from the location the card exists in when the effect becomes active.
Ok...thats it from me, i don't want another long discussion, i've given all the correct logic.
daivahataka
Gold Member
When we start to loose the will to debate rulings (even I'm starting to feel it about some of the rulings) it is indeed a sad day in the game...
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Which is why I later said that I used the term loosely, and that I didnt really mean that it activates on the field.novastar said:
The Skill Drain ruling wording was sloppy. Exiled Force works with Skill Drain not because it is a graveyard effect but because Exiled Force won't be on the field when the effect resolves. The effect must be activated on the field because that is the mechanic that allows for Exiled Force to be tributed.
Just another example of poor or sloppy wording in an earlier ruling causing so many problems for later rulings.
Just another example of poor or sloppy wording in an earlier ruling causing so many problems for later rulings.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
I am inclined to agree with you. When you read it, it does not really express that Exiled is a Graveyard effect.
I believe this has been stated before on this thread, but I'll say it again.
Would "Exiled Force"s effect resolve correctly if "Banisher of the Light" was face-up on the field? (NO Skill Drain)
Yes. "Exiled Force"s effect doesn't care if it ends up in the Graveyard, or the Removed from Play pile. The ONLY thing it cares about is that a face-up "Exiled Force" itselft must be tributed as the activation cost, and that the opponent must have at least 1 monster on their side of the field.
Would "Exiled Force"s effect resolve correctly if "Banisher of the Light" was face-up on the field? (NO Skill Drain)
Yes. "Exiled Force"s effect doesn't care if it ends up in the Graveyard, or the Removed from Play pile. The ONLY thing it cares about is that a face-up "Exiled Force" itselft must be tributed as the activation cost, and that the opponent must have at least 1 monster on their side of the field.
I believe we all are in agreement with you. And the facts for Exiled Force are covered under ruling #6: [Re: Skill Drain] "Skill Drain" does not stop you from activating Ignition Effects, but it does negate their effects as long as the Effect Monster remains on the field. If you Tribute "Cannon Soldier" to itself while "Skill Drain" is active, "Cannon Soldier"'s effect is not negated because "Cannon Soldier" is in the Graveyard, but if you Tribute a different monster for "Cannon Soldier"'s effect, then the effect is negated and your opponent takes no damage. Likewise, if you activate "Winged Minion"'s effect while "Skill Drain" is active, "Winged Minion" is no longer on the field and its effect resolves. If you activate "Exiled Force"'s effect while "Skill Drain" is active, "Exiled Force" is no longer on the field and you can select and destroy 1 monster on the field. If you Tribute "Paladin of White Dragon" to activate its effect while "Skill Drain" is active, it is no longer on the field and you can Special Summon "Blue-Eyes White Dragon". If you Tribute "Great Dezard" while "Skill Drain" is active, it is no longer on the field and you can Special Summon "Fushioh Richie".
The poor wording was from ruling #7: [Re: Skill Drain] "Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects that activate in the Graveyard, such as "Witch of the Black Forest", "Sangan", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Exiled Force", "Sinister Serpent", and "Vampire Lord".
Exiled Force shouldn't have been in that list. But having that entry led to The End of Anubis fiasco.
The poor wording was from ruling #7: [Re: Skill Drain] "Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects that activate in the Graveyard, such as "Witch of the Black Forest", "Sangan", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Exiled Force", "Sinister Serpent", and "Vampire Lord".
Exiled Force shouldn't have been in that list. But having that entry led to The End of Anubis fiasco.
The closest thing I can find 'quickly' is this ruling from "Giant Kozaky":
"The effect of "Giant Kozaky" that inflicts damage to the controller activates in the Graveyard or the "removed zone", wherever "Giant Kozaky" goes to after being destroyed. "The End of Anubis" will negate the effect of "Giant Kozaky" if it was destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, but "Banisher of the Light" will not (because "Giant Kozaky" does not have to be "destroyed and sent to the Graveyard"). Nor will "Skill Drain" negate the damage if "Giant Kozaky" is destroyed."
This may end up being the explanation given for "Exiled Force".
"The effect of "Giant Kozaky" that inflicts damage to the controller activates in the Graveyard or the "removed zone", wherever "Giant Kozaky" goes to after being destroyed. "The End of Anubis" will negate the effect of "Giant Kozaky" if it was destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, but "Banisher of the Light" will not (because "Giant Kozaky" does not have to be "destroyed and sent to the Graveyard"). Nor will "Skill Drain" negate the damage if "Giant Kozaky" is destroyed."
This may end up being the explanation given for "Exiled Force".
But Giant Kozaky triggers once it has been destroyed. It is a passive effect awaiting the condition to occur. Exiled Force is an active effect that tributes itself to activate its effect.
roadhouse007
New Member
I think, but it is just what I think,
1) Exiled Force is not negated by Skill Drain because Skill Drain does not prevent the effects from being activated, it just negates them if the monster is still face up on the field. As for End of Anubis, I could say that the effect is activated on the field but resolves in the graveyard. The End of Anubis negates effects that activate in the graveyard, which Exiled Force does not. I see it as being able to get around both of these effects.
2) as for Giant Kozaky, Skill Drain negates part 1, and EoA negates part 2, and could stop it if Call of the Haunted summons him in response to GK on a chain. The 1st effect goes immediately if he is face up and Skill Drain is not on the field. And IMO he rules in a Skill Drain deck if you use him right.
1) Exiled Force is not negated by Skill Drain because Skill Drain does not prevent the effects from being activated, it just negates them if the monster is still face up on the field. As for End of Anubis, I could say that the effect is activated on the field but resolves in the graveyard. The End of Anubis negates effects that activate in the graveyard, which Exiled Force does not. I see it as being able to get around both of these effects.
2) as for Giant Kozaky, Skill Drain negates part 1, and EoA negates part 2, and could stop it if Call of the Haunted summons him in response to GK on a chain. The 1st effect goes immediately if he is face up and Skill Drain is not on the field. And IMO he rules in a Skill Drain deck if you use him right.
My take on EoA vs. Exiled (just hear me out)
1. When you activate Raigeki Break, and your opponent negates it with Seven Tools of the Bandit, do you get the card you discarded back?
2. No, therefore, the cost was paid before the card was activated.
3. And so, Exiled Force must tribute itself before its effect activates...
4. Hence, Exiled will already be in the grave when it activates, and The End of Anubis will negate it.
Don't argue with me, I'm already convinced that I'm right
-pssvr
1. When you activate Raigeki Break, and your opponent negates it with Seven Tools of the Bandit, do you get the card you discarded back?
2. No, therefore, the cost was paid before the card was activated.
3. And so, Exiled Force must tribute itself before its effect activates...
4. Hence, Exiled will already be in the grave when it activates, and The End of Anubis will negate it.
Don't argue with me, I'm already convinced that I'm right
-pssvr
daivahataka
Gold Member
Which would then open the whole can of worms of allowing face down cards to be tributed for their effect, since you'd know at activation that the action was correct.pssvr said:My take on EoA vs. Exiled (just hear me out)
1. When you activate Raigeki Break, and your opponent negates it with Seven Tools of the Bandit, do you get the card you discarded back?
2. No, therefore, the cost was paid before the card was activated.
3. And so, Exiled Force must tribute itself before its effect activates...
4. Hence, Exiled will already be in the grave when it activates, and The End of Anubis will negate it.
Don't argue with me, I'm already convinced that I'm right
-pssvr
Incorrect. This is how it goes:
1 You declare that you are activating the card's effect. Activation condition's must be correct.
2 You pay any costs, including designating a target, if it is required.
3 The card is now activated, and will be placed on the chain block.
-pssvr
1 You declare that you are activating the card's effect. Activation condition's must be correct.
2 You pay any costs, including designating a target, if it is required.
3 The card is now activated, and will be placed on the chain block.
-pssvr