To target or not to target

[Darklight]

Hi every one, I just read the roulings for Divine Wrath, and it reads: [Re: Divine Wrath] You can chain "Divine Wrath" to the effect of "King Dragun" that Special summons a Dragon-Type monster, and raed some posts that included, D. D. Warrior Lady, D. D. Assailant, Fissure and some others that I was possitive that were "targgeting" cards. So please can any one make this clear to me????
Must the card say "select a monster " to target, ....or what is the critteria to this....
Thanks.

 

[darkjason]

Targets are selected at activation.

Fissure (and also Smashing Ground) - they choose at resolution

Divine Wrath - negates effects, which aren't targetable

DDWL and DDA - the monsters are not targets, they're not really selected.

Generally, the card has to actually make you select at activation. Premature Burial, for example, targets because you must select who you are picking up at activation.

 

[Jason_C]

Right. Were as, say, Reflect Bounder does not target, because the opponent attacks, where as you have no say in what happens.
-pssvr

 

[Darklight]

I agree, at least in part, Divine Wrath reads: Discard 1 card from your hand. (cost) Negate the activation and the effect of an Effect Monster and destroy the monster....so I undersant that It negates the effect of a monster (non-chainable), but it also says that it also destroys the effect monster ...isnt that targeting??? And if Fissure and Smashing Ground doesnt target, why does Penguin Soldier????
With this Im not asking about this specific cards but about the general creteria about targeting or non-targgeting, and not just based upon UDE, and end up saying "Cause UDE say so". Im trying to learn the basis of this subject and if any other card presents to me in the future, be a able to identify if its a target or non-target card.
Thanks.

 

[anthonyj]

Smashing Ground and Fissure are like heat seaking missiles. You pull the trigger (activate) but they find there own target and destroy it. Targeting effects require you to actually point to what you want them to destroy.

 

[Darklight]

Great metaphore (did I spell it right?), I think that just make it water claear.

But what about Divine Wrath??? Unless the only one effect monster is on the field (there foward the "homming missle"of Divne Wrath will destroy it" as my friend said), but if not I think one have to target the "monster destroying effect".

 

[anthonyj]

Divine Wrath isn't asking you to choose a target. It is just sitting on the field waiting to be used, think of it like an anti-personnel mine that everytime a monster walks by (uses an effect) it keeps asking "Should I blow up this one?" All you do is say "Yes" (activate). It blows up whatever was in the area (whichever monster effect was activated) at the time.

 

[Darklight]

Divine Wrath isn't asking you to choose a target. It is just sitting on the field waiting to be used, think of it like an anti-personnel mine that everytime a monster walks by (uses an effect) it keeps asking "Should I blow up this one?" All you do is say "Yes" (activate). It blows up whatever was in the area (whichever monster effect was activated) at the time.

Ok, sorry if Im stubborn but If you use that approach a lot " of card does target like Magic Cylinder may be "just sitting on the field waiting" to return a monsters attack. You can make this example with a whole bunch of targeting cards that are clear targeting cards.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Divine Wrath is an exception, it might have something to do with the difference of monster effects from others. (A spell card's effect is always in the same place, if you activate the effect on the field it will attempt to resolve on the field.) But a Monster's effect can activate on the field but resolves wherever the monster is at the time. So Divine Wrath doesn't know what it will be negating.. a monster on the field, a monster in the graveyard, a monster removed from play.-- For example if it's chained to Exiled Force it's affecting something on the field (negating Exiled's activation) and also affecting something in the graveyard (negating exiled's effect). Since its not defined what it will affect, it is not targetting... (*head explodes*)



Other counter traps like Magic Jammer do target, even though it can only affect one card, because it's activation is completely voluntarily; you are making the choice to affect that one card.

 

[Darklight]

I think UDE can make our life easyer if the put on the targeting cards text "select a card" or "choose a card", even the simple word "targeting" (like "flip") or something like that or even a symbol (like the equip, continuos, counter symbols), on the targeting cards or viceversa for the non-targeting cards. Not a list you have to consult to play them correctly. I know a lot of them has this text but not all. Those are the tricky ones

 

[darkjason]

Unfortunately, wording is controlled by Konami, and as has been written in a fairly informative post by Kevin Tewart, they don't exactly have the same emphasis on wording and templating as those in English speaking countries.

 

[Darklight]

Unfortunately, wording is controlled by Konami, and as has been written in a fairly informative post by Kevin Tewart, they don't exactly have the same emphasis on wording and templating as those in English speaking countries.

Could you please give me the web page or link to check it out???