toon table + gather your mind

1

1cup

New Member
Toon Table of Contents
Normal Spell

Add 1 card from your Deck to your hand that includes "Toon" in its card name, or is named "Manga Ryu-Ran".

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Gather Your Mind
Normal Spell

Add 1 "Gather Your Mind" card from your Deck to your hand. Your Deck is then shuffled. You can only use 1 "Gather Your Mind" per turn.


if i have a toon table or a gather in my hand, and no more in my deck, they become dead cards, correct?
 
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You can also discard them for a card cost.

Basically, the contents of a player's Deck is unknown. It could contain anything (and would NOT be bound by the Restriction List/max. 3 per Deck rule - that's part of the Deck construction, not a part of the game). That's why there's a "fail to find" situation. You can always activate an effect that will search a Deck for a card, because it is not guaranteed that the chosen card will not be in there (even if you know where all the copies are).
 
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initially i meant dead because i thought the player could not activate them.

since graveyard is public knowledge, and there being a 3 copy limit, if two toon tables were in the grave, i could not activate a third one as the full effect on the card cannot be fufilled.

so i take it, from what maruno was saying, i could activate a third toon table, search, and not find another card that has toon in its name or is named manga-ryu ran.

i assume what this implies is, a spell was activated, its effect was not resolved, and thusly the spell card is sent to the grave.
 
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Yes, but since if was activated successfully e.g. Skilled Dark Magician would gain a Spell Counter, or Rapid-Fire Magician would inflict damage.
 
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1cup said:
since graveyard is public knowledge, and there being a 3 copy limit, if two toon tables were in the grave, i could not activate a third one as the full effect on the card cannot be fufilled.
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As I mentioned before, there is no such thing as a "3 copy limit" in the game. That stipulation (and the Restriction List too) exists outside of the game, and is meant purely for Deck construction (so you can't have a Deck filled with Pot of Greed and Exodia). It makes sure the game is balanced, but it is in no way a part of the game itself (by that I mean the game you play - it's not a game mechanic, because they only apply during Duels). The max. 3 per Deck and the Restriction List are Setup mechanics.

So you can certainly activate your third Toon Table of Contents even if you know the other two are in the Graveyard and you're not packing any Toon cards. The game state does NOT know what's in your Deck. You only know because you made the Deck during Setup (i.e. any time that isn't during a Duel).



For another example, if you activate Gather Your Mind, and don't find another Gather Your Mind in your Deck, then the card resolves without effect. It is NOT that the effect does not resolve; it TRIES to, but can't possibly do so. So it does as much as possible (which in this case is nothing). But the Spell Card itself is still activated, so it goes to the Graveyard afterwards. There's nothing illegal about activating a card that YOU know won't have any effect - it's only illegal if the game state knows it. And remember that the game state does not know what's in your Deck. It never can.
 
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1cup said:
so i take it, from what maruno was saying, i could activate a third toon table, search, and not find another card that has toon in its name or is named manga-ryu ran.
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While you can certainly make a argument that the game state doesnt recognize limited or restricted cards, there is cause to be cautious when stating that the 3 per deck rule is always ignored...

Next to be Lost
Text
Select 1 face-up monster on your side of the field. Send 1 card from your Deck to the Graveyard with the same name as the selected card.

Rulings
You can target a Limited monster with "Next to be Lost", but you don't search or shuffle your Deck. Essentially, there is no effect.

How do you determine if a monster is "limited" within the game state, if you aren't using the 3 per Deck principle?
 
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Plus there's the exception to the rule too:

The Agent of Creation - Venus

"¢ You cannot activate "The Agent of Creation - Venus"' effect if there are no "Mystical Shine Balls" in your hand or Deck.

Which goes against all the other rulings of "knowing" what's in your hand/deck. Just saying we have this 1 oddball out there.
 
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Messed-up rulings. The Agent Venus ruling is just plain silly, and the Next to be Lost ruling makes very little sense too. Playing purely by it would suggest that targetting an opponent's Dark Magician of Chaos under your control would not let you search for your own copy, regardless of whether or not you have one.

Plus, the very first ruling of Next to be Lost:
The very first ruling said:
"¢ You can target a Limited monster with "Next to be Lost", but you don't search or shuffle your Deck. Essentially, there is no effect.
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...states what I've emboldened, which goes entirely against that game mechanic which says you can't activate a card with no effect. To me that suggests the ruling is plain wrong, either because it says you don't search your Deck, or because it implies you can activate the card in the first place.
 
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http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=7452#7452
Judge-yu said:
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The original question asker stated that the player would want to "confirm" his opponents decks when he used nobleman of crossout on a limited/restricted card. (magician of faith for example) Should deck "confirming" even been brought up in this situation?
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Response:

Deck confirmation is still carried out, even if the removed Flip-Effect monster is a limited card.
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Curtis Schultz
Official UDE Netrepâ„¢
CurtisSchultz_netrep@Hotmail.com
[/font]
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Yeah, the Next to be Lost ruling is really dumb.

Why dont they look up the already existing rules before giving out new ones?!
It's not that hard. And if they dont know something they could just ask here ;)
 
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Yes, I always thought they should have at least one person to think up sensible and coherent rulings for cards, and preferably a group of people.
 
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Preferably someone who monitors message boards and has authorization to make adjustments to minor or contradictory info until official clarification comes in. At least then we would have something solid to go by until the final word comes in. Then clearly lable any exceptions as exceptions.
 
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I would like to mention that those card effects don't necessarily do "nothing". In just about every situation, they allow you to look through the deck (give the opponent a chance to make sure you have no more copies of a card) and shuffle your deck, it doesn't really sound like "nothing" to me.
 
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