Treeborn Frog

[frostmonarch]

If my treeborn frog is killed in battle by Dark Ruler Ha Des, is its effect negated in the graveyard, thus preventing the Treeborn from returning on my next standby phase provided that the conditions are correct for treeborn to return?

Thanks

 

[John Danker]

Thats correct, Dark Ruler Ha Des's effect will negate Treeborn Frog's ability to special summon itself from the graveyard until such time as you've special summoned it via a different means and sent it to the graveyard again.

 

[frostmonarch]

Thanks for the information

 

[Kyhotae]

OK. "Dark Ruler Ha Des" has a ruling that supports that "Treeborn Frog" will not come back (the one about "Sinster Serpent" and "Marie the Fallen One"), though "Treeborn Frog" isn't mentioned specifically.

However, "Treeborn Frog" has a ruling that says that if his effect is negated, it can still be activated again and summoned during the same Standby Phase.

So which one should we go by? Is this an inconsistency or am I reading something into "Treeborn Frog"s rulings that isn't there?

 

[Tkwiget]

OK. "Dark Ruler Ha Des" has a ruling that supports that "Treeborn Frog" will not come back (the one about "Sinster Serpent" and "Marie the Fallen One"), though "Treeborn Frog" isn't mentioned specifically.

However, "Treeborn Frog" has a ruling that says that if his effect is negated, it can still be activated again and summoned during the same Standby Phase.

So which one should we go by? Is this an inconsistency or am I reading something into "Treeborn Frog"s rulings that isn't there?

Dark Ruler Ha Des' negation effect is a condition that's dependant upon whether it destroys a monster in battle or not.

Well...that's according to this ruling anyway.

If one of these Effect Monsters is removed from play (by "Soul Release" for example) and then returned to the Graveyard with "Miracle Dig", the negation condition was lost and the effects will now be active.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Yeah, bu how does that explain Treeborn Frog's ability to come back after being destroyed and negated?

 

[novastar]

OK. "Dark Ruler Ha Des" has a ruling that supports that "Treeborn Frog" will not come back (the one about "Sinster Serpent" and "Marie the Fallen One"), though "Treeborn Frog" isn't mentioned specifically.

However, "Treeborn Frog" has a ruling that says that if his effect is negated, it can still be activated again and summoned during the same Standby Phase.

So which one should we go by? Is this an inconsistency or am I reading something into "Treeborn Frog"s rulings that isn't there?

They are refering to Divine Wrath-like negation, which will only negate 1 instance of Treeborn Frog's effect. So you can activate it again in the same Standby Phase.

Dark Ruler's negation is different and will basically place a negation blanket over the monster as long as it remains in the Graveyard after it is destroyed in battle by him or another Fiend (while he is face-up). You would not even be able to activate the effect at all if this is the case.

Go by what John said, it's correct for Dark Ruler.

 

[Kyhotae]

Perhaps, but "Sinister Serpent" has a ruling that says that it will not be able to come back to the hand if destroyed by "Dark Ruler Ha Des". "Treeborn Frog" has no such ruling listed. It doesn't specify "Divine Wrath" or "Solemn Judgement". It just says "if the effect is negated" which is exactly what "Dark Ruler Ha Des" does.

 

[Tkwiget]

If an Effect Monster, destroyed by a Fiend-Type monster while "Dark Ruler Ha Des" is on the field, is returned from the Graveyard to the hand or Special Summoned from the Graveyard, its effect will be active again. Its effect may be negated again if destroyed by "Dark Ruler Ha Des" or another Fiend-Type monster.
If one of these Effect Monsters is removed from play (by "Soul Release" for example) and then returned to the Graveyard with "Miracle Dig", the negation condition was lost and the effects will now be active.

Dark Ruler Ha Des places a negation condition on the monster. If the monster is Special Summoned and then sent to the Graveyard or removed from play and then placed back into the Graveyard, the effect will reset. However, the effect can be negated again if destroyed by Dark Ruler Ha Des.

 

[skey23]

Perhaps, but "Sinister Serpent" has a ruling that says that it will not be able to come back to the hand if destroyed by "Dark Ruler Ha Des". "Treeborn Frog" has no such ruling listed. It doesn't specify "Divine Wrath" or "Solemn Judgement". It just says "if the effect is negated" which is exactly what "Dark Ruler Ha Des" does.

That's part of being a Judge for this game. You have to find other rulings for cards with similar or identical effects in order to extrapolate the correct ruling.

In this case, "Sinister Serpent" and "Treeborn Frog" are similar enough to use the "Dark Ruler Ha Des" ruling as a reference for "Treeborn Frog".

 

[Kyhotae]

That's part of being a Judge for this game. You have to find other rulings for cards with similar or identical effects in order to extrapolate the correct ruling.

In this case, "Sinister Serpent" and "Treeborn Frog" are similar enough to use the "Dark Ruler Ha Des" ruling as a reference for "Treeborn Frog".

I realize that, and at first glance, I would rule that way. However, I think that line in the rulings for "Treeborn Frog" is enough to cause confusion and should be addressed.

Seeing as that I am a lowly Level 1 Judge, I cannot post to the judges list, but I can post here.

Thanks for the input, guys!

 

[novastar]

I realize that, and at first glance, I would rule that way. However, I think that line in the rulings for "Treeborn Frog" is enough to cause confusion and should be addressed.

I completely agree with you here.

I'm just telling you because i know that's what they mean, from years of interpreting rulings.

 

[Cropz]

Perhaps, but "Sinister Serpent" has a ruling that says that it will not be able to come back to the hand if destroyed by "Dark Ruler Ha Des". "Treeborn Frog" has no such ruling listed. It doesn't specify "Divine Wrath" or "Solemn Judgement". It just says "if the effect is negated" which is exactly what "Dark Ruler Ha Des" does.

just note that when 'Treeborn Frog' is Special Summoned, you can't use 'Solemn Judgment' to negate its summon.