Updated Replay rulings!

[skey23]

For those who haven't seen them yet....

http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/en/faq_gameplay.aspx


So now, if a replay occurs and you decide to attack with another monster instead of the one involved in the Replay, you CANNOT attack with that initial monster again.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Example #3 of a replay:
The opponent controls only 2 cards: "The Legendary Fisherman" and "Umi". The turn player controls "Battle Ox" and "Summoned Skull". The turn player attacks with "Battle Ox", and attacks directly because of the effect of "The Legendary Fisherman". The opponent responds to the attack by destroying "Umi" with "Mystical Space Typhoon". A potential new attack target ("The Legendary Fisherman") appears on the opponent's side of the field. A replay occurs. The turn player can continue "Battle Ox's" attack, but it would be destroyed by "The Legendary Fisherman". If the turn player calls off the attack, and destroys "The Legendary Fisherman" with "Summoned Skull", "Battle Ox" cannot attack again this turn because it already declared an attack.

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[Digital Jedi]

Whether the decisions are made arbitrarily or deliberately is not what bothers me. It's the speed at which the decisions are made. How long has the OCG been playing with these replay rules? Last Will? Equip Trap Cards? And who's to say they won't change it again. This game is too malleable for anything carved in stone (or code) to accurately lead me down a correct path of thought.

 

[novastar]

Whether the decisions are made arbitrarily or deliberately is not what bothers me. It's the speed at which the decisions are made. How long has the OCG been playing with these replay rules? Last Will? Equip Trap Cards? And who's to say they won't change it again. This game is too malleable for anything carved in stone (or code) to accurately lead me down a correct path of thought.

I completely agree, but does that mean that there is no validity to the mechanics of the vid game? no

...and having seen several things transferred into actual play in the card game, wouldn't the arrows point more towards at least paying attention to what they do in the games?

The whole mess starts from the fact that UDE should not even be involved in rules/rulings whatsoever.

 

[novastar]

It's Konami's game, whether it be the TCG or the OCG.

One does not take precedence over the other, Konami makes the rules for both games.

Well one can believe the everything is purple rainbows and pretty colours in a utopian world, but after 5+ yrs it's quite clear that the OCG side recieves information ALOT faster than the TCG side. There are too many examples to list.

 

[Tiso]

You do realize a lot of these erratas and ruling changes that the TCG has been getting to, except for the ones they clear cut have a confusion with like Elemental Hero Rampart Blaster already existed in the OCG long before. The TCG plays a catch up game. None of these are actually new, just finally brought over seas. Same thing when we got those new battle position rulings. The OCG are going "What new rulings" when they see the TCG?

 

[Digital Jedi]

I completely agree, but does that mean that there is no validity to the mechanics of the vid game? no

...and having seen several things transferred into actual play in the card game, wouldn't the arrows point more towards at least paying attention to what they do in the games?

The whole mess starts from the fact that UDE should not even be involved in rules/rulings whatsoever.

The problem that arises though, is how far we take it. When a player says "that's the way it works in the video game" it can end up becoming an excuse to play things incorrectly. Whether our rulings matc the video game or the OCG is irelevant, because two months ago, if you had attemted to play the game by the vid rules in an official enviornment, then you would have been penalized or corrected.

You do realize a lot of these erratas and ruling changes that the TCG has been getting to, except for the ones they clear cut have a confusion with like Elemental Hero Rampart Blaster already existed in the OCG long before. The TCG plays a catch up game. None of these are actually new, just finally brought over seas. Same thing when we got those new battle position rulings. The OCG are going "What new rulings" when they see the TCG?

It doesn't matter that the OCG has always been played this way. Why would it matter? Our rulings are the official way to be played whther they are "correct" or not. It's like saying that the rules have always been this way for everybody, when they haven't. Our rules have always been different and I don't get how pointing to the OCG changes that in any way.

We have our rules and they have their's and the often differ. The video game has it's rules based on the game that has their rules, so there's another reason that makes it a flawed comparison. Just because we're catching up now does not validate the video game in any way shape or form. For a time, it was still incorrect on this subject. And it still is on others.

 

[Tiso]

Because our rules come from Konami. The only time we have different rules is when UDE refuses to go along with a stupid ruling that makes no sense whatsoever or the TCG has more clarified text and the OCG follows suit. Either way, the OCG is important to the game. Just ignoring it is only showing your arrogance that the TCG is the YGO way of life.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Because our rules come from Konami. The only time we have different rules is when UDE refuses to go along with a stupid ruling that makes no sense whatsoever or the TCG has more clarified text and the OCG follows suit. Either way, the OCG is important to the game. Just ignoring it is only showing your arrogance that the TCG is the YGO way of life.

Does it make you feel smarter to call other people arrogant? Just to let you know, it not working both ways.

I don't speak Japanese. I don't live in Japan. I don't play the OCG. The TCG is MY way of life. What eventually comes down to me is only relevant when it finally reaches me. Not while it sits in the rulings database of a game that I can neither play nor understand the language of. We're not playing the OCG here. We're playing the TCG with it's own set of rules. The methodology of how we get those rules really doesn't mean a hill of beans when your sitting in a tournament and you say "but this is the way it's SUPPOSED to be played cause this is the way the OCG plays it!" What do think a judge is going to say to you. Is the judge arrogant because he makes a ruling based on the English TCG?

 

[Tiso]

Digital, you said it. Not me. The fact that you even refuse to bother looking up the OCG and what not just shows my point. I do not live in Japan, play the OCG, speak Japanese (well I simply refuse to) and yet I at least keep up to date on the going on in the game I play. It is that same attitude that gives me an advantage over the people who do not know or just do not care when I go ahead and explain them these things. If you do not care about the OCG Digital then nothing that the OCG does, which is releasing new sets, new promos, and so on should not interest you in the least.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Digital, you said it. Not me. The fact that you even refuse to bother looking up the OCG and what not just shows my point. I do not live in Japan, play the OCG, speak Japanese (well I simply refuse to) and yet I at least keep up to date on the going on in the game I play. It is that same attitude that gives me an advantage over the people who do not know or just do not care when I go ahead and explain them these things. If you do not care about the OCG Digital then nothing that the OCG does, which is releasing new sets, new promos, and so on should not interest you in the least.

So you feel like your in some special position because you make a decision I choose not to make? Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word "arrogance".

By the way, the release of new sets, new promos, and so on in the OCG doesn't interest me in the least. Where did you get the impression it did?

 

[krazykidpsx]

Fellas, I belive we should all take a few Calm Down Pills. and settle down.

The EX06 Software is in deed acurate with how the game is played, By no means does it make it a Rules Bible. NO far from it, BUT expect it to be the best software till 2007 comes out. And who knows how much will change in 07 or how little with the insane progress that EX06 has done.

even in Duelist Acadamy the whole Counter Issue was a problem, in 2005
there werent a single Counter card, Breaker, and all thouse cards were missing becuase supposedly the game couldnt handle the use of spell counters, Wrong. All you need to do is set up the right programing for it to work. If the case was that the game is always incorrect then why is it that there is a large scale tournament for it?

If the OCG/TCG are both incorrect as well why do people have large scale tournament for them aswell?

the release of Cyber Impact states that a New Mechanic will be released, Will everybody here start trippin? NO, Embrace what ever the heck they think up, Its their game, not yours.

When i left the game i made it clear and said, "Until this game gets a comprehensive rule book I wont be playing it ever again"

Up to now i havent played, yes I put my few cents in review and so forth, because of all the previous knowledge of the game that I have. But I dont play becuase of the simple fact that Konami nor UDE will ever release a Comprehensive rule book, all they do is pass a Pamphlet on "How to play" this game, that is all.

For Konami to have about 10 years with this game and yet release a Comprehensive rule books show how serious they are about this game. its a pass time, thats all that itll be and when it dies out only the hardcore players will remain. and when they do they will be argueing with each other over rediculous rulings that never made sence to begin with.

this TCG VS. OCG thing aswell as video game should stop. Non of you have a single clue what Konami is thinking, Neither do I... So just let it be.

What ever they say, just say yes and move along.

 

[Tiso]

I never held the WC2006 game as the rulings bible, but it deserves more credit and respect that it actually had the majority of things right. Who knows, maybe Hydrogeddon will work against tokens (highly doubt that) and perhaps Rope of Soul is wrong. But time and time again we get new rulings and errata that match up to what cards did in the WC2006 game.

So you feel like your in some special position because you make a decision I choose not to make? Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word "arrogance".

Digital, when did I even say I was special? Did I go around with a top hat saying "Look at me. I am Special. I KNOW ALL." How is it arrogant of me to actually be more involved in YGO than outside of the TCG? You admitting that you do not care about anything with the TCG just shows your arrogance. Seriously, without the OCG there be no TCG. Without the creator, there be no OCG, for which the TCG comes from. At least give it some attention.

 

[krazykidpsx]

I never held the WC2006 game as the rulings bible, but it deserves more credit and respect that it actually had the majority of things right. Who knows, maybe Hydrogeddon will work against tokens (highly doubt that) and perhaps Rope of Soul is wrong. But time and time again we get new rulings and errata that match up to what cards did in the WC2006 game.

So you feel like your in some special position because you make a decision I choose not to make? Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word "arrogance".

Digital, when did I even say I was special? Did I go around with a top hat saying "Look at me. I am Special. I KNOW ALL." How is it arrogant of me to actually be more involved in YGO than outside of the TCG? You admitting that you do not care about anything with the TCG just shows your arrogance. Seriously, without the OCG there be no TCG. Without the creator, there be no OCG, for which the TCG comes from. At least give it some attention.

::sigh:: please tiso, chilll down.

the reason why Hydrogeddon works in the game is becuase ALL creatures hit the graveyard, this includes Tokens in the video Game, but in the TCG Tokens never hit the graveyard, if its considered destroyed instead of going to the grave itll Disapear.

thats why Hydrogeddon doesnt work in the TCG, but does in the Game.

In Magic, Tokens do hit the grave. So if an effect would work with a creature hitting the grave and a token hits, the effect will trigger and the token will cease to exist once it hits the grave.

If you have scapegoat tokens on the field and the opponent uses MOrphing Jar #2, what happens? how many cards do you put into your deck? 0 according to TCG.

In magic if a token has to go to the deck itll count towards the effect and then disappear. thats just how it all works out.

Konami wants to make the push in their game that tokens work the same as in all other games. while keeping some sick rulings in the Cardboard games.

Just let it be man... Just let it be.

 

[Tiso]

Konami problem was they "tried" original over MTG. I never see the tokens hit the Graveyard in the WC2006. For me I just say that Hydrogeddon thing is a bug, but then again.......

Michizure working in the Damage Step was proven correct.

Also, you do realize that Jedi was just as guilty in this right? But wait, I forgot, because I always get the short end of the stick here.

 

[Digital Jedi]

It gets the attention I feel it deserves from me. And I'm not stating you present the video game as a rulings bible. But you defend it to the hilt and often with the conviction that it is. Go back and look at some of your comments on this thread and you'll see what I'm getting at.

When the OCG and the TCG perfectely sync up and we're informed that the two games are played EXACTLY the same way, I'll give it all the credence in the world. As it stands, they don't, so I can't, in good conscience, look to it and guide people to it as an accurate source of information. The best I can do is "well that how THEY play it, but I don't know if we can do the same" until the rulings are clarified for us. This is what I've been getting at the whole time. Until we're instructed in the TCG how to play the TCG, what the OCG does, does not help me play the TCG correctly until we're given definite information that this is the way it is to be played.

And no, it isn't arrogant for you to be involved in the OCG at all. But throwing the word "arrogant" around with out properly knowing its meaning can only backfire on you. What we have here is a failure to communicate. I don't HAVE to accept the OCG as the rulings capital of Duel Monsters. You don't HAVE to deny it. But your tone suggests that anyone who does not accept it, is arrogant and ignorant of the rules. I'll have you know there are a good many Judges who can explain a ruling like they have a built in Ronin software, but do not even know what "OCG" stands for. It isn't part and parcel of learning how to accurately understand and teach this game. There's a reason we have rulings in our respective language. It's so we have our native tongue(s) to discuss it in. Not sit and translate details based on very limited knowledge of a language we don't fully understand.

We don't have to agree on this. But we can certainly accept the others opinion. I already get you revere the OCG as the origin of the game. Now please understand my viewpoint that the OCG is nothing more then the mountaintop, when I drink water from the foothills. What trickles down to me from the summit is not as pure to me as what I get down below. Aside from that, the water up top is undrinkable until it thaws.

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

I completely agree, but does that mean that there is no validity to the mechanics of the vid game? no

There is no validity to the Video Game. (Notice the absence of the word "mechanics")

Just like in my die example before, there is no validity to dice. But when it rolls the right answer it still remains a valid answer.

...and having seen several things transferred into actual play in the card game, wouldn't the arrows point more towards at least paying attention to what they do in the games?

Yes, it can be hard to erase something (concrete) you know-- Keeping an eye on other things will give you an idea of some rulings that you need to keep an open mind about, they could be changing.

But by the same logic, as a duelist, you should try to keep an open eye out for incorrect rulings. As if enough Judge's believe it you may find yourself at a tournament playing under these incorrect rules, and will have to be able to adjust your strategy accordingly. (If enough people keep making the same mistake, "If you can't beat 'em join 'em" might come to apply. Afterall how many of you noticed the mistake of "Just Desserts" )?

But that's psychological prepartion.


I've said it before elsewhere, when something asks more questions than it answers, you should ignore it if possible.

There's no way to tell whether the Video Game is imitating the OCG, or whether its made the ruling for another reason. There's no way of knowing why the TCG has a different ruling.

There's no way of knowing which rules are going to be changed to match the Video Games.

Remember do not "Affirm the Consequent"

"If the video game were correct, the TCG ruling will change."

The TCG ruling changed, does that make the Video Game correct, of course not, "If" works in one direction only. You can't go backwards:

If it were to have rained, the grass would be wet.

The grass is wet? Does it mean it rainned? Of course not, the grass could have been wet by a hose, or a sprinkler, or the temperature might have dropped below the dew point, or something might have flooded.

 

[novastar]

Well i absolutely agree that the rules within the video games are only official within the confines of the game itself, and should not be used in the TCG.

What i do believe however, is that a vast majority of the rules and mechanics are put in there deliberately by Konami, and this replay mechanic is most definately one of them.

I also believe that Konami and UDE have communication breakdowns that cause us to fall behind in this regard... multiple chains at the Battle Step anyone?

So it peaks my interest when i see something as blatent as the replay in WCT2006, and it made me step back a bit. Infact everytime i play a new version of the GBA games, there is something new in there, that seems deliberate to me, not programmer work arounds.

 

[masterwoo0]

this TCG VS. OCG thing aswell as video game should stop. Non of you have a single clue what Konami is thinking, Neither do I... So just let it be.

What ever they say, just say yes and move along.

This is what I have been saying for the longest. If anyone even has Shares in Konami or UDE from this site, I would be suprised, and if you sit on Board Meetings, then I tip my hat to you!

But, unless you have "insider knowledge" to all things Yugioh, coming straight from Konami and not just some newsletter, then to presume anything that Konami does is nothing more than conjecture, and the more you say it, doesn't mean it is right.

But, it would seem that some people would feel that they are experts because of the amount of Yugioh related knowledge they have, and that that information gives them part and parcel to speak in place of Konami, which it doesnt.

The fact that I was born in a Hospital doesnt have me trying to seek out the descendants of the individuals that built the first one, but I would surely thank them if I had a chance run in, for their predecessors providing a place for me to safely be brought into this world.

So, while I appreciate the OCG for making the TCG possible, I do not celebrate them, as we are only Step-Children as far as it would seem. When we become equals, then I would see the OCG in a different light.

 

[novastar]

Yea yea, everybody has been saying it all along, no one works for Konami, we should just say yes to everything they should say and bow to it... haven't we heard this broken record before? Don't like the topic?.. don't post.

I applaude and respect those who push the envelope for more, even if they are hiting a brick wall.

No one is suggesting that the OCG is superior or that it should be celebrated, it's about the fact that this whole rulings situation is a mess (although it's a lot better today that it was years ago). I think bishop hit the nail right on the head by saying that Konami's choice to include UDE in the rulings preceedings was a bad one, and a farce. No one needs to work for either company to see that fact.

So what do we do? it is what it is right? true, but it's sad to see that when the "real" governing body puts out there own rules/rulings in plain site for everyone to see, that conflict with UDE's (which supposedly come straight from Konami anyway), everyone in the TCG jumps and say "Well UDE's FAQ rules here so disregard this" ...it's just a silly circle.

 

[masterwoo0]

Not sure if that was directed towards me, but it's not important as it's just a statement.

Anyway, to clairfy my last post, no one makes any direct quotes from Konami in any post that is made that expresses that "Konami doesnt care about the game".

We can all "feel" that that may well be true, but that doesn't mean it is.

The only quotes that are made come directly from those who would feel that we are being slighted by Konami, and again, it can only be your personal opinion.

I am not disparaging anyones knowledge of YUGIOH. But being knowledgeable about the game, doesnt translate to knowledge of the inside workings of Konami Corp.

More than one person feels that Konami could do better. Do they chose to, or do they know how to? Or, do they simply chose not to? The game is a cash cow for them. Even as many debate how long it will last, there is no denying that it continues to make money, "TODAY".

I would just say that all comments relating to Konami should be prefaced with the fact that, unless you do have direct knowledge, it is just a highly opinionated feeling that may or may not contain some bits of truth.

 

[krazykidpsx]

Fair warning to EVERYBODY. This includes moderators becuase they know better than to continue a argument were they know the opposite party will lash out in talking more crap.

You can speak what you wish, BUT do not let it go overboard.

thats all im saying.

Watch the line, stay withing the lines but dont cross it.

have fun fellas.