Venon Swamp Questions

DarkLogicianOfCaos

Eschew Obfuscation
Venom Swamp Field Spell Card

Monsters loose 500 ATK for each Venom Counter on them. Destroy a Monster if its ATK becomes 0 by this effect. During Each Player's End Phase, place 1 Venom Counter on each face-up Monster, except "Venom" monsters.

Ruling: "This card's effect to destroy a monster whose ATK is reduced to 0 does not start a chain."

Questions:

1. When Venom Swamp leaves the Field (MSTed, Replaced, etc.), I assume that the counters stay and the affected Monster retains the ATK Decrease until the Monster is filpped F/D, removed, etc., or the Venom Counters are otherwise removed (e.g. Counter Cleaner), like the Alien Counters, right?

2. When Venom Swamp reduces a Six Samurai to zero that is equipped with Legendary Ebon Steed, Ebon Steed takes the hit automatically (the same would be true for Heavy Mech Support Platform equipped to a machine, or if one would choose to destroy a different Six Sammurai that isn't already in the same predicament). Is it safe to assume that it stops there even though the Six Samurai still resides in a state wherein it is reduced to zero by the effect of Venom Swamp?
(discourse to follow)

In other words: The effect of Venom Swamp to destroy the Monster, whose ATK is reduced to zero is instantanious, but is it a "one-time shot" deal, or does it place an irrevokable condition on the monster, that as long as it is reduced to zero it is destroyed? The wording is a tad ambiguous. If it said, "When it is reduced to zero...", okay, definitely one-time. If it said "if it's ATK becomes/beacme zero by this effect it is destroyed," I would say, it is a least an undifined aspect and may continue to attempt to destroy the card, no matter if you sacrifice all other four Six Samurai (which might be a great Strategy if your opponent is suplimenting his Reptiles with Ultimate Tyranno and Ultra Evolution Pill).

Unrelated supplimental Question (while we're at it):

Vennominaga is unaffected by... well everything! But, does her protection from effects extend to the counters that are placed on her by her own effect (being her counters), or will Counter Cleaner, which does not affect Monsters, but only counters on the Monster, still remove them (provided it's not #3. Timing is everything). I'm leaning heavily toward, Counter Cleaner removing them, based on this fact, thereby saving one's proverbial buiscuts for a few more hits.
 
1) If Venom Swamp leaves the field, the venom counters would stay on the monsters. The ATK decrease would NOT though, being that that is part of the effect of Venom Swamp, not the counters themselves. If another copy of Venom Swamp were activated, the ATK decrease would be back.

2)One time destruction. If the destruction of a monster because of venom swamp is redirected by something like a six samuri with ebon steed or machine with mech support, the monster still keeps the venom counters and ATK stays 0. The monster is then at 0 ATK until it is destroyed some other way or the counters (or venom swamp) are removed.

....and for the question about the Venommaga (?) counters, Counter cleaner would remove them. Counter cleaner, like you said, doesn't affect the monster, but the counters on the field. So her effect doesn't protect her.
 
roadhouse007 said:
1) If Venom Swamp leaves the field, the venom counters would stay on the monsters. The ATK decrease would NOT though, being that that is part of the effect of Venom Swamp, not the counters themselves. If another copy of Venom Swamp were activated, the ATK decrease would be back.

Relating it to the A-Counters, did you reason that Venom Swamp's effect is not parenthetical like the A-Counter cards? I thought of that, but the opening statement of Venom Swap seemed so Matter-of-fact, then again, so are most effect statements, I guess. You know, it would be nice to have some sort of standard indication of Cost, Effect, Activation, Target, Resolution, etc. Maybe a color code.


Where is everyone today? COG seems exceptionally empty today. I count 11 people on the whole YGO forum.
I found them...They are all here: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/community/forums/18/ShowForum.aspx
 
DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
Relating it to the A-Counters, did you reason that Venom Swamp's effect is not parenthetical like the A-Counter cards? I thought of that, but the opening statement of Venom Swap seemed so Matter-of-fact, then again, so are most effect statements, I guess.
Vemon Counters do not reduce ATK. Venom Swamp does, with the amount of reduction dependant upon the number of Venom Counters.

Every Monster Card that generates A-Counters contains the "lose 300 ATK/DEF when you battle an "Alien" monster" phrase. I'm not entirely sure why the Spell and Trap Cards don't, but there you go. The point is that the phrase becomes attached to the A-Counters.

A monster with an A-Counter can battle, say, Alien Hunter (which does not have the phrase), and still lose the stats. In this case there is no card saying the other monster loses the ATK/DEF, but it happens anyway. Because it's not a card effect causing the reduction, it must be a condition placed on the A-Counters.

This makes it different from Venom Swamp. Venom Swamp does not create a condition on Venom Counters; it has an effect that merely counts Venom Counters and does something accordingly. It is a Continuous effect. And once Venom Swamp leaves the field, its effects no longer exist. Therefore no more ATK loss.


DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
You know, it would be nice to have some sort of standard indication of Cost, Effect, Activation, Target, Resolution, etc. Maybe a color code.
It would be nice, but it's far too logical for Konami. Why do things the easy way?
 
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