What I want to see is....

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John Danker

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I'm growing a little tired of just about every player in a major tournament who doesn't do well blaming their poor performance on everything but themselves. I read the boards and listen to them at the tournaments and all I hear is, "The guy was staking his deck." or "He luck sacked on me and got..blah blah." or "If I played him 3 matches rather than 3 games he'd never be able to beat me." or "The T.O. screwed up the pairings." on and on and on....

I realize it's a pretty mature concept....but I'd love to hear the following types of comments once in a while....

"I made a couple of poor decisions and it cost me the match."

"I don't feel I have a poor deck or I'm a bad player, karma just wasn't on my side today. I'm sure it'll change next time."

"We're both good players, I drew poorly starting out and he drew well, he got the jump on me and I tried to fight my way back but he kept the pressure on and I couldn't recover."

"I wasn't prepared for his deck, I was playing to the current meta and his deck addressed mine very well. I didn't even have anything in my side deck to help me out. It was a good lesson learned and I'll certainly makes some changes to my side deck to counter that in the future."

" I must admit, today, he was certainly the better player. He really hand his game on."

Part of growing up is taking responsability for your own actions and the results of your efforts. You're more likely to gain respect and you'll certainly show more class and be viewed as an individual if you have the audacity to just tell it like it is rather than making up excuses folks.
 
See, as well as that is cool and all, it is a valid point in every situation. You mean to tell me that it is my fault if my Deck (and let us say for example my opponent and I are using IDENTICAL Decks) was shuffled in such a way (not stacking or cheating) that every card I was getting was wrong for me? I not only get a bad hand, but I get the wrong cards at the wrong possible times and that is my fault? Luck plays a factor in this game. Sometimes we lose beyond our control

Now I can understand in the game you did not think a move through and lost it. Trust me, I seen someone lose to me in one turn all by themself on their own turn which laid the ground work for me to win the very next turn just because they did not think through a move that should have been a easy 4000 LP from both attacks each. The point is, it is out of our control a lot of the times. Your opponent gets a god hand. You get a pupu hand. You both are good players.
 
John Danker said:
"I made a couple of poor decisions and it cost me the match."

"I wasn't prepared for his deck, I was playing to the current meta and his deck addressed mine very well. I didn't even have anything in my side deck to help me out. It was a good lesson learned and I'll certainly makes some changes to my side deck to counter that in the future."
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I think I've said both of these more than a few times....
 
As much as taking responsibilities for your own actions sounds right to me, the generation of today don't really understand that. I got it drilled into me as a kid and its stayed by my side until today.

Personally, I hate the word lucksack because for the simple fact that it isn't a word. Its some stupid phrase that someone coined and everyone is using as an excuse. Grow up! Seriously.

Anyway, at the same time, I do admit that there are days when I can't draw the card I need even if my life depended on it and I do get frustrated so I just take a break. =/ These kids need to realize that its just a game.
 
Tiso said:
See, as well as that is cool and all, it is a valid point in every situation. You mean to tell me that it is my fault if my Deck (and let us say for example my opponent and I are using IDENTICAL Decks) was shuffled in such a way (not stacking or cheating) that every card I was getting was wrong for me? I not only get a bad hand, but I get the wrong cards at the wrong possible times and that is my fault? ...
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Yes. No one else built your deck, but you. The options you draw are entirely your own fault. It's not like you weren't aware that your deck was going to be randomized. You knew that when you learned how to shuffle. It's up to the deck builder to plan accordingly, and minimize that as much as possible and to the best of his ability.

John, what your talking about is called "humility". It's a concept that the world no longer teaches as being a virtue. However, virtues do not stop being virtues because the world thinks them otherwise. I think people believe that if they admit to any mistakes on their part that they are showing some kind of weakness. Ironically, it's an inability to admit when you've erred that is a weakness. The Yu-Gi-Oh! community is one of rudest TCG communities I've ever dealt with, to be frank. I've always appreciated CoG for teaching humility, tact, generosity, concern, education, honesty and creativity as virtues.
 
Digital Jedi said:
Yes. No one else built your deck, but you. The options you draw are entirely your own fault. It's not like you weren't aware that your deck was going to be randomized. You knew that when you learned how to shuffle. It's up to the deck builder to plan accordingly, and minimize that as much as possible and to the best of his ability.
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The options I draw and entirely my fault? Alright, then whenever you lose Digital it always your fault. No ifs ands or buts about it. You lose. Sorry, but I think not. How is it my fault what I draw, when I draw it, and how I drew it? My draws are random. I could have made the best Deck ever that wins SJC city after city, but that is not going to mean jack if I get a bad hand or have bad draws that do not help me in the situation. You are also not going to tell me that you have never had a bad draw, your opponent just had the better cards at the right time over you, or any other "excuse" as I am sure you would call it. It is just an impossibility. Sometimes we lose beyond our own control. It is not my fault I lost because I could not draw the Mirror Force or Lightning Vortex in my Deck at the right time when I have like over 30 cards left in my Deck.
 
i think that luck is a big facter to what cards you draw, but in the end its down to each player to deside how they use each card they get when they get them!!!
 
That's DJ's point though when it comes to deck building. A deck builder shouldn't depend on drawing Mirror Force or Chaos Sorcerer to pull them through. Sadly this is why CC decks are what the are though. Most every card needs to be able to be a good top deck in order to have a consistant deck.

When we deviate from that premise, we risk drawing "bad hands" That's the nature of the beast....and that's what we're talking about. A good deck builder should ensure that his / her deck is as consistant as possible...or just accept that the theme may not work at times and not blame it on any possible reason under the sun except the fact that they didn't make a consistant deck.

Do people draw poorly in spite of a well built deck...sure, however, pouting, stomping off doesn't exhibit good behavior, good sportsmanship, or set good examples to other players.
 
Tiso said:
The options I draw and entirely my fault? Alright, then whenever you lose Digital it always your fault. No ifs ands or buts about it. You lose. Sorry, but I think not. How is it my fault what I draw, when I draw it, and how I drew it? My draws are random. I could have made the best Deck ever that wins SJC city after city, but that is not going to mean jack if I get a bad hand or have bad draws that do not help me in the situation. You are also not going to tell me that you have never had a bad draw, your opponent just had the better cards at the right time over you, or any other "excuse" as I am sure you would call it. It is just an impossibility. Sometimes we lose beyond our own control. It is not my fault I lost because I could not draw the Mirror Force or Lightning Vortex in my Deck at the right time when I have like over 30 cards left in my Deck.
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The phrase "beyond your control" is a pushing it a little. You build your deck to minimize bad draws. An inexperienced player has to learn how to minimize bad draws. Your more then well aware when you shuffle your deck that a bad draw might occur, because you built it. You should be aware of what your bad draws are going be. "Beyond your control" insinuates that all this was completely random and chosen by the winds of fate and happenstance. It's not. You chose all the cards in your deck for whatever reason, not chance. You were more then aware that you could potentially pull a bad draw. How is that anyone else's responsibility but yours?
 
I can comment from experience here.

before I changed my deck a little bit i useally got what i thought was a good hand.but because the people I dueled knew my deck well they were allways on top of my next move.

Since I have changed my deck. I have the same issue sometimes, but it is more solid in performance (I think I iwll post this and see what people think.)

so building your deck to a number of good starting cards does ruduce the risk..
 
John Danker said:
That's DJ's point though when it comes to deck building. A deck builder shouldn't depend on drawing Mirror Force or Chaos Sorcerer to pull them through. Sadly this is why CC decks are what the are though. Most every card needs to be able to be a good top deck in order to have a consistant deck.

When we deviate from that premise, we risk drawing "bad hands" That's the nature of the beast....and that's what we're talking about. A good deck builder should ensure that his / her deck is as consistant as possible...or just accept that the theme may not work at times and not blame it on any possible reason under the sun except the fact that they didn't make a consistant deck.

Do people draw poorly in spite of a well built deck...sure, however, pouting, stomping off doesn't exhibit good behavior, good sportsmanship, or set good examples to other players.
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So John, basically you are saying "Do not make the Deck you want to make, no matter how good you can get it because it will not be a consistent win. You need to have cards in your Deck that whenever you draw them will always give you an advantage." That about the jist of it? Because that is exactly what I got from your post. People should be punished for making Decks on their own ideas. I should be punished for wanting to run Water Dragon.

I am all for good sportsmanship, but if the player beats me because I had bad hands and he goes and says "Good Game", I am going to do what Midnighter did to Henry Bendix at the end of The Authority: Revolution to the person who says that with a smug feeling to it. I kid you not. I want to be a good sportsman. I will lose with dignity and accept my loss. But I will not allow myself to be put down by someone who beat me based on luck or forces out of my control when they go "GREAT GAME MAN. YEAH I MEAN YOU HAD LIKE NOTHING TO HELP YOU FOR A FEW TURNS. BAD HAND ALWAYS SUCK. TEE-HEE!!!" It is my very right to act accordingly in winning or losing.
 
in my opinoion theres a few things you need to play yu-gi-oh
and any other card game of a simaler nature.

you need good deck doesn't matter what type of deck it just needs to be well bulit.

when your dueling you need to consontrate on your moves have some skill and a little bit of luck.

lets say both players fields and hands are empty it's your draw and you draw nobleman of crossout,smashing ground or a high level monster and you can't use it.

it's your firstturn you've drawn your first six and one of them is pot of averice it's useless in your first hand you could be holding it for ages.
or maybe you could a cyber dragon deck and get all your cyber dragons at once.

sometimes the card you draw might not be the card you need.
drawing cards is the luck playing the game is the skill.
 
I will even further expand upon that. In the GX episode where Chumely graduated. It was not the fact if he won or lost, but it was more with how he used all the cards he had at his disposal as best as he possibly could. Even though you may or may not win, you at least owe it to yourself and your opponent to use whatever you can use to your advantage as best as you can.
 
I guess I'm very fortunate in that I don't win often enough to really be concerned about it. My first loss ever was to a kid 1/3 my age. I learned a lot. My last loss was to a kid 1/2 my age, I learned more. Maybe I expect it because I use off the wall theme decks. If I were to seriously play in Tournaments and go for the big prize (first, I don't know if I would be able to have as much fun, because I'm trying to wipe out the opponent), I would probably be using a variation of a CC deck, with very few "bad draw" cards. But I have more fun experimenting with non-standard themes. Yes, sometimes I get bad draws. Yes, the guys I tend to play have huge egos and enjoy talking smack and rubbing my face in it. Yeah, so what. I have fun.

Is there, then, a correlation between playing for competition and playing for fun that allows one to lose graciously and the other pout? I think so. I can play competitively, but the instant I win (or lose) I have to back myself off, anylize the plays and give grace accordingly ("Nicely played." "Man, you (or I) couldn't seem to get a good draw, that's tough." "Hey, so you got some bad draws...Now that it's over, if you had the draw that you were looking for, what would it have looked like?....Woah, that would've been cool. Maybe if you change this, it would help you next time.") That's what I'm here for anyway. Teach and learn, learn and teach.
 
Tiso said:
So John, basically you are saying "Do not make the Deck you want to make, no matter how good you can get it because it will not be a consistent win. You need to have cards in your Deck that whenever you draw them will always give you an advantage."
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You have completely and to the fullest extent misunderstood what I wrote. Forgive me if I didn't make my meaning clear. No, my intent was not to say you shoudn't make the deck you don't want to make no matter how good you can make it.

My intent was to say, if you make it and it's not consistant or depends on a risky win condition then don't blame your loss on anything but the fact that it's a risky win condition and of your own choosing.
 
Tiso said:
So John, basically you are saying "Do not make the Deck you want to make, no matter how good you can get it because it will not be a consistent win. You need to have cards in your Deck that whenever you draw them will always give you an advantage." That about the jist of it? Because that is exactly what I got from your post. People should be punished for making Decks on their own ideas. I should be punished for wanting to run Water Dragon.
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What? How on earth did you extrapolate that? The CC decks are what they are because they utilize the one-shot wonders of this game. They are the least combo dependant cards in the game. Deviating from that is a much harder endeavour and often results in less-consistency. Since there are fewer people researching these possibilities, then the hunt for the more consistent non-CC is going to result in more bad draws. Honestly, how did you arrive at such a negative conclusion?


I am all for good sportsmanship, but if the player beats me because I had bad hands and he goes and says "Good Game", I am going to do what Midnighter did to Henry Bendix at the end of The Authority: Revolution to the person who says that with a smug feeling to it. I kid you not. I want to be a good sportsman. I will lose with dignity and accept my loss. But I will not allow myself to be put down by someone who beat me based on luck or forces out of my control when they go "GREAT GAME MAN. YEAH I MEAN YOU HAD LIKE NOTHING TO HELP YOU FOR A FEW TURNS. BAD HAND ALWAYS SUCK. TEE-HEE!!!" It is my very right to act accordingly in winning or losing.
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So your definition of good sportsmanship is dependant on your opponent also being a good sport? Good sportsmanship is not dependant on your opponent's behavior. You are either a good sport or you aren't. Graciously accepting a loss means doing so even in the face of a taunting opponent. This is where the expression "being the better man" comes from.
 
Like I said, we are allowed to act accordingly to whether we win or lose. Some people just do not accept that being a good sport is allowing someone to insult you to the ground and say "Thanks sir, can I have more please?"
 
Tiso said:
Like I said, we are allowed to act accordingly to whether we win or lose. Some people just do not accept that being a good sport is allowing someone to insult you to the ground and say "Thanks sir, can I have more please?"
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This is what I meant earlier, when I said people erroneously equate humility with weakness. Meekness is not weakness. Humility does not mean you are less of an individual. You only give credence to a person smugness be responding to it in kind.
 
Honestly, I dont even know what to say to people who I thoroughly tear apart after I finishe dueling them. I know it wasnt a good game for them in my mind because of the way they lost. But, you'd be suprised how often that same thought is replaced with a "Man, that deck was pretty awesome!! It tore me apart, but it was fun watching it!!"

I'm thinking to myself, "Are they a Sadist or WHAT??!!!" But some people actually appreciate a good Deck when they see it, win OR lose. So, while it may not be appropriate to say "Good Game" to your opponent when it was clearly lopsided in the loss they suffered, just getting up and walking away surely shows a certain "arrogance", as if you feel they arent even good enough to rate a cordial departure.

"If I said, "Later loser", or "See ya chump", I guess that would make them happy, since they probably already feel like I pooped on their Cornflakes. Yeah, I'd feel like sticking my foot out as they walked past too, if someone said that to me!!

But, why isnt it a great game for the winner? I thought everyone was supposed to be playing their best with what they considered their best deck available. So if my best beats your best, shouldnt it be a good game even if you lost horribly?

I guess it comes down to the fact that some people are in denial. If your deck sucks, dont pretend to think it can hold its own against a superior deck, and when it loses, take your lumps like a man, shake your opponents hand, and get ready for the next Match.
 
I've told this story a couple of times before here throughout the last couple of years since I've been a member of COG but I can't help but tell it again, it seems fitting.

When my eldest son was about 3 we had a little "discussion" about his poor behavior. Now, my eldest son is every bit as bull headed as I am...and I'm plenty bull headed mind you. My son and I got in a debate over what I wanted him to do, the debate escalated, he being as bull headed as I. Eventually he climbed up on a chair so he could look me eye to eye (he must get his bull headedness from his mother <smirk>) I'd learned at an earlier point that spanking doesn't work with this kid, it only inflames his bull headedness. Our voices were rising and the arguement went on for about 5 min. It was obvious to anyone outside of this discussion that it was getting out of hand and likely nothing good or positive would come of it...at this time my lovely wife calmly walked into the room...gently walked up beside me and whispered in my ear, "John....someone has to be the grown up here." ....then she softly walked out.

At first I was mad at HER too....the audacity of her...then after a few seconds I began to chuckle to myself realizing her comment was EXACTLY correct...someone has to be the grown up here.

I think that's what DJ is getting at. While it's not right to be dissed and made a mockery of for a different playing style or a bad hand......it by no means justifys lowering yourself to the same childish behavior....someone has to be the grown up.
 
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