What is a Theme Deck?

What kind of Theme suits your playstyle?

  • Beatdown (Aggression decks)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Direct Damage (burn)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Combination Manuevers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alternative Win Condition (non-attack based)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Control

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
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squid

removed from play
I got kind of inspired to rant by the Theme Decks thread by ShadowBenny. This isnt any kind of angry retort because of it, mind you. I just saw that the replies by people to that thread were totally inconsistent with the choices listed in the Poll that was put up on that thread.

A theme could be attribute, sure. The ones I see people listing a lot of are the sub-type themes (such as Archfiends, Dark World Fiends, or pure Fiends). And then there are the strategy themes.

When it comes to strategy themes though, that is what a deck is about. No one runs the Yugi Moto 40 randomly insane cards that somehow manage to win through love and belief. A theme is centered around a goal. That goal may be the use of a single effect (such as Skill Drain or Final Countdown); it may be a theme around a group of similar effects. For example:

RFP has Warrior, Machine, Spellcaster, Fiend, ect monsters that are devoted to supporting the RFP theme.

Stratos may not be a Destiny Hero, but its effect is uniquely suited to the exact theme of Destiny Hero (plus its a subtype theme).

someone mentioned Gravekeepers in the other thread. Would that be a Gravekeeper theme, or simply a segment of Spellcaster theme?

how would you classify Skill Drain, if the monsters used in it were Earth, Dark, and Wind; Fiend, Beast-Warrior, Warrior, Dragon, and Machine? Its still centered around a specific purpose, right? Wouldn't that still qualify as a theme?

So what deck isn't to a "theme"? Do not all decks run with the purpose of winning through one of the following:

1-beatdown aggression,
2-direct damage,
3-combination manuevers,
4-non-atking win condition,
5-control

its those 5 categories that are what I have always thought was a "theme". Any attribute or subtype based deck can fit within one of those 5 themes.



I know I sound critical, but it just seems to me that there is a lot of discrepancy about what constitutes a theme in this game. A concensus needs to be made about how to define this word and how it needs to be talked about, so that everyone can start off on the same page, talking about the same thing.

This is especially important for teaching new duelists. So many people start off with random Yugi Moto decks and are told by one person that they need to develop a "theme", like Warriors. So they go off and make a Warrior deck (pretty easy to do). But when they come back for more advice, they are told by another person that its just a random assortment of Warrior cards and that they need to develop a "theme".

How confusing is that? If we aren't defining such a basic concept so that EVERYOne is talking about the same thing, then the learning process for new players becomes a very slow, laborious process. Its no wonder that gamers appear seclusive and 1337. The confusion about the most rudimentary of things makes it seem like we are almost trying to hide the right information away.



Ok, Im done ranting. And I will admit that this is probably the least offensive of any and all sites when it comes to trying to erase the confusion. But it exists still, simply due to the ingrained thought processes that we all are used to thinking in and using. Im just as guilty of it as anyone else.



oh, btw: I play a theme deck or two. Combination manuevers. I have a Macro deck, a Dark World deck, a Lava Golem deck, a Destiny Hero Dogma deck, and am working on a Ritual deck. But all of them are focused on the theme of stalling and building resources until I can pull off an intricate win condition.

I think if we examine things through these broader terms, the idea of theme will probably become more apparent to players in their own deckbuilding history. For example, my favorite decks from the past have been:

Necrofear Return
Gravekeeper
Final Countdown
Spatial Collapse
Reversal Quiz
Gren Maju OTK
Magical Scientist/Catapult Turtle
DMoC OTK

Can you see how, even over the course of years, my theme has remained consistent, even though the decks have changed?

Combination Manuever. ;)

So...do you play a theme deck? Of course you do. But now, what THEME is it that you play?
 
btw, this idea is kind of the brainchild of another Dark Monarch from the Lair: FienDillie-O. Dillie-O had a 3-division system which was actually quite apt. The 4th and 5th divisions that I created were my own interpretation of how it developed in my brain.

Any hate mail or criticism can be directed towards him. Im sure he will forward on all the good ones to me. :D
 
I'm a combo player, through and through. I'll admit though, those combos usually set up some massive beatdown. (see: Dark World)
 
As you said yourself, every deck has to be a theme of some sort. Even a deck made completely out of cards with no synergy must have some sort of theme to them. Reducing the opponent's life to zero, that's a theme. You're using various monsters to reduce your opponent to zero to win the game.However, there can be decks with a more defined goal in mind which would probably be the more commonly used definition for "theme". For example, using Dimensional Fissure with D.D. Survivor, that's your goal, that's the theme. Another example, using monarchs with Brain Control and floaters as tribute bait. Your theme? Using monarchs as an advantage creating engine through using your opponent's monsters for tribute bait and using floaters to generate +1. Gadgets also, using their +1 engine of searching themselves out to put pressure on the opponent and using simple removal to increase this pressure. These are just simple examples of what I would define as a theme deck really.

Currently I'm playing Gadgets as a main theme, which I suppose could be categorised as agressive and perhaps with a hint of control. I have played other themes of course prior but I just love my little machines at the moment. :eek:ldwink
 
squid said:
This is especially important for teaching new duelists. So many people start off with random Yugi Moto decks and are told by one person that they need to develop a "theme", like Warriors. So they go off and make a Warrior deck (pretty easy to do). But when they come back for more advice, they are told by another person that its just a random assortment of Warrior cards and that they need to develop a "theme".

How confusing is that?
I see your point, but I think something has to be said about using the word "Theme" as a description for what should be instead "Strategy".

A Deck that uses nearly all 100% Warriors has a "Warrior" Theme, but the "Strategy" can be based on Remove from Play, Aggro Swarm, etc...

Telling someone that they need a "Theme" in a all Aqua Monster Deck is like asking someone for a dollar even though you have 4 quarters. If only the amount is important, the "type" of currency making a dollar doesnt matter. 100 pennies, 10 dimes, 20 nickels; they all do the same thing, just different ways.

A strategy helps form your theme into a coherent Deck. A theme is more a collection of like types, abilities, or attributes. I can build a Deck with

3x Don Zaloog
3x Vampire Lord
3x Mefist the Infernal General
3x Helpoemer
1x Spirit Reaper
3x Vampire Lady

And it is a all Dark Deck, as well as having a Theme of Hand/Deck Disruption, but the Strategy may be nothing more than a "cover" for this card

3x Strike Ninja.

So, while a Theme may seem to be a "Cover Sheet" for a Deck and encompass everything there is about it, it really doesnt have multiple meanings, unless it is in the simplest, most recognizable situation, an Exodia Deck, and the Head is the only effect monster included in the Deck, and the whole Deck has only one other card that isnt a Normal Monster, Heart of the Underdog.
 
And see, right there, I have been defining it differently than you, Masterwoo0. I think I am almost inversing your description of strategy and theme. Now, I have no problem changing my definition, if I see that there is a more consistent way to explain and talk to other people about this subject.

The reason I was describing Theme as those choices above is that I was viewing it as a series of classifications from larger to smaller. Let me provide a couple of examples to illustrate how my brain was thinking about it.

Theme: Direct Damage
sub-theme: mainly Fire Attribute monsters
strategy: using lots of special summoning and Cannon Soldier

Theme: Alternative Win
sub-theme: Exodia
strategy: draw through deck as quickly as possible

Theme: Combination Manuever
sub-theme(s): Ritual
strategy: stall until you can pop out Demise and clear the field.

Theme: Control
sub-theme: not apparent
strategy: (see Masterwoo0's example)

Theme: Beatdown
sub-theme: Gadgets
strategy: thin deck with gadgets, use lots and lots of monster removal.



To be honest, I dont think I really had considered a "sub-theme" until reading the replies. And perhaps this still doesn't work for some reason I dont see. But then again,...maybe it does. :)
 
I define "theme" as something the majority of the cards in a Deck have in common. That is, most monsters being FIRE, most cards as Spell Cards, more cards than usual (taking CC as the base, perhaps) generating Spell Counters, quite a few Gravekeepers, that kind of thing.

I then define "strategy" as what the Deck aims to do. Weaken opponent's monsters with A-Counters to deal massive damage through attacks, summon Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon for massive damage, retrieve Exodia, spell out Destiny Board, etc. This is mostly one of the few Win Conditions, and how your Deck goes about achieving it.

Theme is what cards you use - it's practically an overview Deck list. Strategy is how you use your cards.
 
so what you are saying is that I could reverse my own description and make the "theme" that I wrote down as the strategy, and let Theme be a more loose topic that is defined only by whatever common thread holds it together. Is that right?

I mean, I can live with that, but when people like SoilentG ask for a quick summary of all the different themes, Im just going to have to throw up my hands and walk away. There are simply too many to give any short summary.
 
What about Lock-down? Where would you put it? Into the Control stuff? I'm not sure where I belong with my Dark Paladin deck :D
 
No terminology is perfect. That's just how I interpret the words "theme" and "strategy".

Firstly, what's lock-down? Not allowing your opponent to do anything (Ojama Trio + Spatial Collapse or other combo with similar result)? Such a Deck wouldn't really be able to win on its own, I don't think. If you throw in Final Countdown, it's an Alternate Win strategy (sub-strategy of Final Countdown, nothing more said), with a theme of stall (sub-theme of field lock, sub-sub-theme of Spatial Collapse and filling up the field, etc.), because the strategy is how you're trying to win (there's only a few ways to do that), and the theme is what kind of cards you're using to do that (in this case, cards that lock up the opponent's field).

I think. This can get quite confusing.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Ramblings

Strategy should be one of the seven (is it seven?) different ways to win a Duel: Life Points, Deck out, Victory Dragon, Exodia the Forbidden One, Final Countdown, Destiny Board, Last Turn. Perhaps you could define it as ways to end a Duel instead of win (in which case, Self-Destruct Button as well).

Sub-strategy should be which specific way you intend to achieve the win (or end) condition: Battle Damage, Effect Damage, uhmm... I don't think you can really call this a sub-class, since it's practically no different to the main strategy (particularly the ones needing specific cards).

Theme is what the majority of your cards do (ignoring the staples and so forth): Effect Damage, Battle Damage, draw, opponent draw, Remove From Play, stall by hand control, stall by field control, that kind of thing.

Sub-theme is more specifically what your cards do and/or focus around: Lava Golem, Cannon Soldier, Fusion, Ritual, draw through monster power (and which monsters), kinesis (stat-boosting cards), Battle Phase-related Spells/Traps, chance (coins/dice), etc.

Theme and sub-theme can get quite hazy, and I'm sure the things I mentioned for them could easily belong in either or the other category. Sub-anything isn't quite important anyway. Theme is what you do most generally (but is NOT how you win! It's what you do to get that win, such as "draw your Deck" if you want Exodia). Sub-theme is what you do to achieve that (card effects, combos). Sub-sub-theme, if you want to go that far, is the little things, ways to set up the cards/combos (Manju of the Ten Thousand Hands, if you're about a Ritual Deck).

Theme and strategy can be the same at times (Battle Damage, Final Countdown, for example), or at least sound really similar.

Ramblings over. Did you actually bother reading this?
 
Maruno said:
Ramblings
......
Strategy should be one of the seven (is it seven?) different ways to win a Duel: Life Points, Deck out, Victory Dragon, Exodia the Forbidden One, Final Countdown, Destiny Board, Last Turn. Perhaps you could define it as ways to end a Duel instead of win (in which case, Self-Destruct Button as well).

........

Ramblings over. Did you actually bother reading this?


LOL! If you took the time to read the inane things I was writing, the least I can do is read your ramblings. :D

Correct me if Im wrong, but out of those 7 ways to win, both Life Points and Victory Dragon are based on reducing LP to 0 while the other 5 are based on winning through the achievement of a certain condition other than Life Point management.
 
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