What level player are you?

[Digital Jedi]

I was a cheated newbie. When I first started my closest associates thought it was funny when they cheatd me at every turn. As a result, I learned very little on how to properly play the game. It was diffcult to devise strategies when I was told "whatever" when it was time to impliment them and explained to why t wouldn't work. Sad to say, as much as I love my friends, they fell into the class of Elite and not Champions. They HATD to lose. Especially to me. The compitition between them has resulted in more argueoing then advancment.

Asa direct result of this my development as a duelist was skewed. I was old enough and intellegent enough to know that my deck ddn't HAVE to be this or that to be competitive. But everytie I had an idea of my own or I was inclined towards this set of cards I'd get the old "that'll never work in tournament" commment. (!??) Who cares? I was just starting and I wanted to find my own way around the game. I liked playing seldom played cards from the beginning. That was just my personality type. Aside from that, to this day I've only been to one sanctioned tournament and didn't even have enough money to play there!

So I can't say I fall into any of the above catagories. Garbage like what was done to me is what stiffled me from the get-go and did nothing to improve the quality of my game. My game got better when I started going online and researching the rulings to this sgame and looking into newer card effects. I've never netdecked in my life in any way shape or form. I've looked at card interaction closely, but in some deck types there's only a few combos that exist. Even so I really havent built those decks ever I just have some of the component cards sitting around for months at a time.

I don't believe in much of what's taught as a fundimental of Yu-Gi-Oh! I don't belive that a competitive deck has to be right at 40. I've proved that to wrong.

I don't beleive that even in an unbanned enviornment that you absolutly have to run the same broken cards. I proved that to be untrue back before the first ban.

I've never EVER had a player disrespect me though. Even in the beggining I made my opponents work for thier win. Mainly because even in the beginning I did things the way I wanted.

And thats part of the reason why I was always cheated. My friends hated to loose against me so much that they couldn't even play thiere regular decks whenn they played me. They had to side-in or build specific deck types just to counter the ideas I had. My decks always relied on all-purposeness, something they told me wasn't possible. My decks didn't rely on immediate broken combos that if you didn't pull them you wer ead for sure, I mean how boring is that. The same combos over and over again. I like to make my opponent think. Make him work fr his money.

So to this day I still have to fight some of the comments. My freinds have all moved on to VS because they haven't the stomach for this game here. I'm a little more loyal to things I love which tells me that they never really loved the game, only the spirit of competitiveness. I managed to develop a love for both.

I'm sure one day the'll read this and get all PO'd at me but I couldn't care less. I was subject to so much cheating, the extent to which I can only guess, that I really think they deserve to be called out for making the game unenjoyab;e for me in the beginning. For some strgange reason they thought that would make me better. But what I keep running into is peaople who think that what works for them works for me. It doesn't. Never has in the whole 32 years of my life. I'm a unique individual and my game and my decks are unique. If they work, fine. If they don't, whatever.

And so what if my deck isn't tournament worthy? It's my deck and I'll find out for myself. I don't like to loose. But I don;t hate it so much that I'll cheat the inexperienced, and stifle creativity just to avoid it. Thats just pathetic.

 

[Mazera DeVille]

This is my current and probably permanent position, Starting to get good. I don't think I will ever progress from this position simply because I play different games and I don't have the 'thinking outside of the box' abilities. Come to think of it and I don't really have any duelling abilities. I have been in this position since the beginning of the game when it first arrived in Europe about 3 years ago. Since then it's been the same every time. I have to say that I am a YVD duelist so don't play many actual games and I have not been to any tournaments sinec I failed to qualify in the last regionals. I don't even know if I am going to be able to play in the up and coming regional events.
Tournaments are few and far between so I don't have the opportunity to play at them. When I play I seem to acquire all the arrogant duelists who completely destroy my deck and game leaving me wonderring whats the point in going on. I have never ever netdecked another players deck and took my own to all the tournies I have been to and they have never been the same. The decks I have taken have been as follows

Zombie Deck - Using cards from the Yugi and Kaiba Starter Decks and from LOB and MRD from Europe against US cards which were up to LOD by then. Won 2 duels with this, lost 5.

Fire Equip Deck - Using Fire based monsters and the equip spell card Salamandra and any fire monsters along with burn cards in a single deck. It failed miserably, lost all duels.

Relinquished Deck - One of my most successful decks, won 3, lost 4 duels and caused people problems. Still using European cards up to PSV.

Thousand Eyes Restrict Deck - An attempt to improve on my Relinquished deck, it was no where near successful. My first deck since Europe caught up with the US in card releases. Won 2 duels, lost 17.

Mazera DeVille/Archfiend Deck - Fell flat on its face, won 2 duels lost 23.

Since then I have not been to any proper tournaments and to be honest I don't know if I ever will again.

 

[Xeno]

Personally, I think being a champion is not all about skill, but more about knowledge and compassion for the game and its players.

I disagree. Knowledge and compassion make you just that, knowledgeable and compassionate, but it doesn't make you a champion in itself. It's probably the more morally correct way to approach the game, but like in any sport, it's not necessarily the most efficent way to success. To me personally, the way to determine if you're a champion is by looking up how high up on the National Rankings you are.

How can anyone call themselves a champion if they can't even get into the top 500? It defeats the purpose of the word champion to assign to people who aren't backing up their claims with first place prizes and going to world championships.

I'll probably get flamed for that, but meh, that's my humble opinion.

 

[Xeno]

Mazera DeVille[/ycard]]
Tournaments are few and far between so I don't have the opportunity to play at them. When I play I seem to acquire all the arrogant duelists who completely destroy my deck and game leaving me wonderring whats the point in going on.

Since then I have not been to any proper tournaments and to be honest I don't know if I ever will again.

You shouldn't take it so personally or seriously. You find people that will stick their nose at you all the time in life. You shouldn't let a small minority of duelists ruin the tournament experience for you.

I'm not going to defend them, but many people (myself included) say or do things that they don't think are offensive at all but in fact, really offend other people. So it's best just to forget about it, and look at your deck go over the reasons you lost and go and fix it.

At the end of the day, you can't improve that much if you don't put yourself in a competative environment, and who knows, maybe you'll go back and mop the floor with those guys

 

[Mazera DeVille]

I just have the one aim, to go into matches and no matter what, win or lose come out with the opponent knowing that they had to work for their match win. Testing their full abilities and their decks capabilities. Being the best is not something I am really bothered about. You can't always maintain a number one record. But being a player that is challenging and making the opponent work for their win, now that is something I would feel happy to achieve. Just can't seem to achieve that though.

I just wish I could find competitive environments, they seem difficult to find. I am stuck in the middle of nowhere.

 

[BenjaminMS]

I never go to a tournament (at last, not since I started playing, but maybe later on?). A friend introduced me at Yu-gi-oh, he knew the basic rules... However, I now know FAR more about Yu-gi-oh then he does. When I come with a changed Deck, then... actually, he must first look what they do... Most times I can be found on a forum, the last time only THIS forum... Looking at Decks of others, giving advise, getting advise of others, making mistakes (most times because I often read the message too quick) or trying to explain how a certain thing works... Or, of course, preparing a card review, I love to search Netrep/RONIN to find old, (long-)forgotten cards that are still fun to use. Don't ask me to review up-coming cards, I'm no type with the newssources with that.

About dueling: sometimes, I duel online. I duelled against some of the people who made it to high positions at the Dutch National Championship Yu-gi-oh. Sometimes got beaten, but won also. Or had a near win (example: almost decked-out a Exo-duelist. That lucky guy escaped: I had set a MoF to prepare Card Destruction for the 4th time... On his turn, he made it to draw the last part of Exodia He had about 4 or 5 cards left, with a 6-card hand).

Good luck guys.. this forum is actually the best part of Yu-gi-oh! experience: talking about news, helping/getting help, ...

 

[exiledforcefreak]

You left out a few steps between the last two. Between those two step people still look at metagame.com's deck not for ideas but for knowledge that help people decide what is and what is not a good way to go.

If everyone is running DDWL, DD assailants and bottomless traps holes them maybe pheonix or zombie isn't the way to go.

If everyone is running Enemy Controllers then maybe berserk gorrilla isn't a good idea.


During this transition you learn to read your opponent and his moves. You KNOW what that face down card is without a doubt in your mind and play accordingly. You also learn the differance between what you play on the first turn and what you play on the second turn; there is a huge differance. You learn how and when to bluff; someone who takes time can't bluff, the experianced player doesn't stop to look at their hand twice, they have the experiace, the know the situation, it's familiar to them, they know what they need to do, they draw a card and set the correct magic card as a bluff without hesitation just as you would set a trap card without hesitation. You learn how to guess your opponent's hand based on how he plays. You gradually, without even realizing it, learn to memorize what your opponent has already played and guage what remains in his deck without looking at his/her grave.

 

[Tkwiget]

I'd just like to say this. Show me an "elite" or "champion" class player that isn't arrogant and I'll hand you fifty bucks. (Keep in mind this is in real life only, not that online crap..and I have to see proof.) I'm serious about this too. I have yet to see an experienced player that isn't tainted with idioticy of a narrow-minded little child to make me feel like NOT hitting them. (I'm excluding all members of the team I'm in because they're really nice and aren't arrogant players.)

Also the thing I've seen with some players is that they go out of their way to be extra cruel to their opponent in tournaments. This can be any kind of body gesture or gesture of any kind for that matter. Rolling your eyes, signing, drumming fingers on table top, or assuming you're not even paying attention. One that bugs me the most (which I often too back to annoy them) is that they throw out little comments or phrases like, "Bye bye!" whenever a monster is destroyed on myself of the field. It's annoying so I do it back and they hate it. I hate little mind games of idioticy. If someone wants to play like that with me then expect the same treatment.

I like to enjoy a good game and I don't beg to be annoyed by my opponents with little comments or gestures. Sometimes the situation can be funny and sometimes not. Usually your opponent can give you that feeling of how relaxed the duel will be.

-_- Not like anyone cares what I say. I'm ignored most of the time.

 

[Xeno]

I'd just like to say this. Show me an "elite" or "champion" class player that isn't arrogant and I'll hand you fifty bucks.

(I'm excluding all members of the team I'm in because they're really nice and aren't arrogant players.)

If you and your "team" managed to pull it off, doesn't that suggest that there could be others out there? I don't think there is a set stereotype. Some top tier players are arrogant, but then so are some n00bz. It depends on the person, not how good he is.

There also needs to be a distinction between confidence and arrogance. I've seen people called "stuck up" or "arrogant" when they are just ambitious and confident.

Also the thing I've seen with some players is that they go out of their way to be extra cruel to their opponent in tournaments. This can be any kind of body gesture or gesture of any kind for that matter. Rolling your eyes, signing, drumming fingers on table top, or assuming you're not even paying attention. One that bugs me the most (which I often too back to annoy them) is that they throw out little comments or phrases like, "Bye bye!" whenever a monster is destroyed on myself of the field. It's annoying so I do it back and they hate it. I hate little mind games of idioticy. If someone wants to play like that with me then expect the same treatment.

A lot of that stuff would annoy me too, but I think the best way to deal with it is to either ignore it, or just laugh. If you don't take it seriously, neither will your opponent and you can both laugh about it and get on with game. I think it creates unnecessary aggrevation to "do it back" to people, it just escalates the situation.

My pet hate is people who think they are in the anime.

"Player A: I now hold in my hand a creature of unimaginable power!! I summon Blue-Eyes White Dragon in attack mode!! Now, Blue-Eyes, attack his Blade Knight with White Lightning Attack!"

I would laugh at stuff like that, but it just makes me cringe. I'm actually embaressed for the opponent in this scenario!

 

[Xeno]

During this transition you learn to read your opponent and his moves. You KNOW what that face down card is without a doubt in your mind and play accordingly. You also learn the differance between what you play on the first turn and what you play on the second turn; there is a huge differance. You learn how and when to bluff; someone who takes time can't bluff, the experianced player doesn't stop to look at their hand twice, they have the experiace, the know the situation, it's familiar to them, they know what they need to do, they draw a card and set the correct magic card as a bluff without hesitation just as you would set a trap card without hesitation. You learn how to guess your opponent's hand based on how he plays. You gradually, without even realizing it, learn to memorize what your opponent has already played and guage what remains in his deck without looking at his/her grave.

I pretty much agree with you there, that's why I always said that I believe the best way to improve is to play as many competative duels as possible. Practise makes perfect and all that.

 

[BenjaminMS]

If you and your "team" managed to pull it off, doesn't that suggest that there could be others out there? I don't think there is a set stereotype. Some top tier players are arrogant, but then so are some n00bz. It depends on the person, not how good he is.

There also needs to be a distinction between confidence and arrogance. I've seen people called "stuck up" or "arrogant" when they are just ambitious and confident.

True... so far so true. There are some of the better, but also some of the more worse players who think: "I owe this world!". Let them. They'll find out they won't.

I pretty much agree with you there, that's why I always said that I believe the best way to improve is to play as many competative duels as possible. Practise makes perfect and all that.

Also a true statement. However, it is a statement that is true in that way, that the MOST will learn of it. There are some who just don't have the ability.

A lot of that stuff would annoy me too, but I think the best way to deal with it is to either ignore it, or just laugh. If you don't take it seriously, neither will your opponent and you can both laugh about it and get on with game. I think it creates unnecessary aggrevation to "do it back" to people, it just escalates the situation.

The best way. But the best option is if 'bullies' ever would learn to stop it. It just spoils the fun of playing.

My pet hate is people who think they are in the anime.

"Player A: I now hold in my hand a creature of unimaginable power!! I summon Blue-Eyes White Dragon in attack mode!! Now, Blue-Eyes, attack his Blade Knight with White Lightning Attack!"

I would laugh at stuff like that, but it just makes me cringe. I'm actually embaressed for the opponent in this scenario!

The most-heard statement ever... and also, the example of the moment almost EVERYONE thinks: what the ...? The most ashaming is that I sometimes even more experienced players saw doing that...

 

[Xeno]

Also a true statement. However, it is a statement that is true in that way, that the MOST will learn of it. There are some who just don't have the ability.

I always thought that you can improve with practise no matter your level. Maybe I'm wrong?

The most-heard statement ever... and also, the example of the moment almost EVERYONE thinks: what the ...? The most ashaming is that I sometimes even more experienced players saw doing that...

Haha, yeah true. I've seen some older and/or more experience players do it too. I just bury my head in my hands in disbelief and horror. If nothing else, it gives me a cheap laugh.

I remember once someone did the whole "I summon Red-Eyes, attack him with Red Flare" or whatever. I just stood there perfectly motionless, not saying a word, just staring at his Red-Eyes. After about 1 minute, the guy goes "er... aren't you going to do something?" and I just shook my head as if I had come out of a daydream and went "ooh, I just waiting for the Red-Eyes to blast me with his Red Flare". We both almost fell off our chairs from laughing. Good times.

 

[krazykidpsx]

mwahahaha, thats happend to me before.

some guy from some team (i wont say which) was acting like he was in the cartoon, and he was running stuff from the show. so here i am with this 5 minute maid DMOC/Cyberjar OTK deck and hes all hyper active.

now the deck was made that same morning for that regional event. i only went cause my friend adrianana was going so i was like, sure why not kid lets go and play. he asked me what deck id run i said, " any i dont care " so its about 6pm at night and i have to play against this person.

the funny thing is that he keeps acting like the cartoon and i couldnt stand to laugh my behind off when he attacked my Cyber Jar and saw me pull off 2x Book of Taiyou, 2x The Shallow Grave and 1x Mass Driver.

he was like, "OH NO ITS A DECK OUT DECK!"

and i couldnt stop laughing because i thought he was still acting, but man i was way off, he was actually being serious. it goes to show sometimes laughing isnt good. actually the 2 matches going on around us stoped for a quick moment to see what was going on.

they were like, oh man, this guy is about to lose hes gonna get decked out.

i never once actually did the Card Destruction +Serial Spell combo. but i did the DMOC combo, which kinda got the guy mad, frustrated, and sad.

its is not kool to laugh i guess.

well if you think about it, i did go.

"so now ill play Spell Economics, NO Responce??, okay ill continue on, ill playMass Driver, NO responce??, okay ill continue on, ill Soul Release 3 monsters, Magician of Faith, cannnon solider, and Morphing Jar, NO responce??, Okay ill continue on, Ill play Dimension Fusion summoning back all my out of play characters, NO responce?? okay, ill continue on, ill sac 2 summon dmoc ill get back Dimension Fusion. Would you like to give up?" - At this point, i figure he really had absolutely nothing, well i was wrong, he had a bottomless traphole, to bad it didnt really do much to help him... he lost with his deck in his hand.

now that i think is what got to him, he figured, this chump doesnt have an OTK, he missed the Card Destruction and cant get it back, he lost once my turn hits.

i saw his hand too, it was actually sparkley but it kinda kicked the toon out of him. but yea, its not kool to laugh at thouse players, they take the game very very very serious, probably more serious than any of us actually do.

 

[PerfectZelgadis]

After rereading what i've written here i see is did leave a gap btw Netdecker, and Champion/Elite. We'll go with Engen (engineer) name that was mentioned early in the thread. This would be the stage I find myself in. In this stage you look at other decks to decide what not to run. (The example of everyone running bottomless and DDA, so not running Zombie Pheonix comes to mind.) I've appreciated what everyone has said here. I really thought I'd do nothing but offend people here.

 

[anthonyj]

You may actually find that Engen is not an in between step. Many of the most creative deck builders I've met aren't on their way to winning high level tournaments. They are often the Judges that know this game inside and out and truly enjoy finding new ways to use the seldom seen cards. An Elite or Champion by your definition is simply someone who has gained enough tournament experience and has enough insight to stay in the top ratings. That does not truly "need" a lot of creativity. It needs enough rule knowledge to understand the card interractions in the current meta, and the ability to calculate percentages of likelihood and a bit of psychology to give you the edge when you need to bluff your opponent.

An Engen on the other hand sees the meta for what it is, a current fad in the game based on the most broken cards currently available and the popularity of certain combos and strategies. They see the inner workings of the game and how each new set of cards affects the balance to alter the meta. And they typically really enjoy playing the off the wall decks that you would rarely run if you are only interested in the actual "greatest percentage chance that you can win".

The only difference between an Elitist and a Champion is the mentality. A Champion enjoys the competition and wants to encourage others to play to their best so they can have more enjoyable matches. An Elitist gloats over the fact that he has reached a higher level than those around him and needs to keep those around him in the dark as much as possible so he can keep his position of superiority. To which I say, "If the only way you can win is to beat those weaker than you you aren't much of a duelist."

 

[Dillie-O]

Word, I'm changing my status to Engen...that was scary how much I started saying "AMEN!" internally when I was reading that paragraph. 8^D

...I need to run off now and figure out how to make my Kozaky deck better 8^D

 

[Digital Jedi]

I disagree. Knowledge and compassion make you just that, knowledgeable and compassionate, but it doesn't make you a champion in itself. It's probably the more morally correct way to approach the game, but like in any sport, it's not necessarily the most efficent way to success. To me personally, the way to determine if you're a champion is by looking up how high up on the National Rankings you are.

How can anyone call themselves a champion if they can't even get into the top 500? It defeats the purpose of the word champion to assign to people who aren't backing up their claims with first place prizes and going to world championships.

I'll probably get flamed for that, but meh, that's my humble opinion.

But you see, what we have here is a difference in opinion of what a champion truley is. In many sports or in many areas of specialization there are the people who win the Championships or take the best positions. These people are successes no doubt, but there are others who can be considered champions.

A fireman who save a ten-year-old girl from a burning building is a champion to the mother and father of that child. But that in no way makes him the greatest fireman who ever lived. Even so, his contribution to his profession saved the life of a single child and that family will always consider him a hero. A champion in courage, as it were.

Success doesn't neccasarily make you a champion. It just makes you succesfull. The true champions are the ones who benefit someone other then themselves. The people that they touch and inspire along the way. The wisdom and experience that they impart through out the course of thier lives and the friendships that make along the way. In whatever specialization your in, these are the earmarks of a true champion.

Winning and loosing? That doesn't mean a thing. If a man trains everyday to be the best track runner he can be, if he sacrifices and suffers for his dream at winning that one ultimmate championship event and gives it his absolute all, only to be killed in fatal car accident on the way to the event, does it make him a looser?

On the other hand, what if he trains so hard and so fervently that he sacrifices everything to achive his dream. I mean he sacrifices time spent with his family. Sacrifices time spent nurturing the relationships he has previously forged and, in fact, has little use for them now. Has no respect for anything else other then the game. And anyone that cannot come up to his level of skill is treated as beaneath him. Cares little for friends and friedships and put the game above all else. Even if he wins, can he truley be considered a Champion?

There's an ancient parable about a man who, after being invited to a feast from an important wealthy friend, takes it upon himself to seat himself at the section of the table reserved for the most important and honored guests. Why? He just thinks he deserves it. As a result the host embarrasses him by making him go to the end of the table in full view of all his other guests.

However, another man invited to the same event, although a close friend of the host, seats himself at the far end of the table because he doesn't think himself worthy of such a lofty position. He is honored by the host and brogut to the front of the table where the honored guests are seated.

The parable is closed off with the statement: "He who places himself last, will be made first. He who places himself first, last."

This is where our conception of a champion lies. In the spirit of his game. Not in how many points he has. Not in his player rating. I've seen these so called winners play there game. I have more respect and admiration for the loosers who loose graciously. The mere act of winning will never make you a champion if your actions show you don't deserve it.

 

[anthonyj]

Here here. Well said.

I've spent many years as a rapier duelist. Titles are awarded for skill in winning tournaments as well as for mastery of teaching others. The tournament champions have this tendency to look down on the Dons who achieved their scarves through something other than beating all the other fighters. I've crossed swords countless times over the years but I'll never forget the first tournament I was in when I was up against a far more experienced duelist and scored a hit on his right arm (meaning he would have to transfer his sword to his off hand to continue). The entire crowd went dead silent when I transferred my sword to my left hand and put my right hand behind my back. To me it was dishonerable not to meet my opponent on even ground and I would no sooner take advantage of such a situation than I would trounce an 11 year old with a starter deck, (I'll typically pass up a chance or two when I could easily end the game, maybe overextend myself a bit to let them have an opportunity to turn the tables). I enjoy dueling with swords or cards because of the challenge to see what I can do. Not what I can do to others.

 

[roadhouse007]

I would put myself in probably the Netdecker/Engin area, but I do sometimes act like an 'elite'. Whenever a bada$$ combo is about to go off and win me the game, I get a little excited and kind of get a little loud. Like at SJC Gencon Indy, during my 8th round, I got the perfect Morphing Jar....just what I needed if my opponent couldn't stop it with something he just drew (it was his turn, and he had 1 monster and 1 m/t, which I already had solutions for). He said he was going to pass and not play any of the five cards, and I was like "REALLY!!! YOURE DONE!!" I apoligized afterwards for my manner, but it was like... OH CRUD!!! turn 2 with him at 8000 and after what I played my first turn it was in the bag. It just kind of came out of nowhere.

But I build my own decks to a point. I do use ideas that seem to work, I just try to utilize other ideas to make my own unique creation. Like was said, netdecking is just part of learning the game thouroughly. Everyone does it, then learns what works, then puts those ideas into motion in their own unique form.

 

[Xeno]

But you see, what we have here is a difference in opinion of what a champion truley is. In many sports or in many areas of specialization there are the people who win the Championships or take the best positions. These people are successes no doubt, but there are others who can be considered champions.

This (or these rather) are the definitions of a Champion (according to the Oxford dictionary)


1. One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.
2. One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a champion at teaching.
3. An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a champion of the homeless.
4. One who fights; a warrior

So you can argue that we are both right!

But I don't think being a nice guy, or a modest guy makes you a champion at all. It just makes you a nice guy. Plus I think if you want to use an example, sport is a bad one! The legends of sports, such as Pele, Ali, Sampras, Jordan and even Hulk Hogan, are legends because they were racking up championships and trophies, not because they were in line to pick up a salute for being a nice guy. In fact, I'm pretty sure that with the exception of Jordan, all those undisputed champions of their respective sports were known to be utter ***holes.

Champion is not a word I would associate with firemen. Hero definetly, but not champion. If you start going "but he's a champion to the parents of the rescued girl", then you have effectively killed the use of the word "champion" by cliche'-ing the word in a way that can be used to include just about anyone. Champion should be an exclusive word reserved for a few, other wise what is the point?

Success doesn't neccasarily make you a champion. It just makes you succesfull. The true champions are the ones who benefit someone other then themselves. The people that they touch and inspire along the way. The wisdom and experience that they impart through out the course of thier lives and the friendships that make along the way. In whatever specialization your in, these are the earmarks of a true champion.

I don't think Pete Sampras has ever helped anyone other than himself. I was in shock when I met him, the guy is a total jerk. But he stills inspires/ed thousands of people with his talent, his hard work and most importantly, his success. There is no "true" or "Fake" champions. A Champion is someone who wins. Through winning, he inspiries others by setting a standard and challanging others to reach or beat it.

Winning and losing is everything. Every aspect of life is a competition. Whether it's you against 10 other canidates for a Senior Partner job, or you against 30 other people at a snowboarding tournament. I don't train and spend half my salary snowboarding to come 30th, nor do I work my ass off at my job to progress my career just to let someone else walk into the promotion that's mine by right.

If a man trains everyday to be the best track runner he can be, if he sacrifices and suffers for his dream at winning that one ultimmate championship event and gives it his absolute all, only to be killed in fatal car accident on the way to the event, does it make him a looser?

It just makes him nothing. Not a winner, not a loser. Training and sacrifice are meanliness without the result. Some people just enjoying sacrifice and suffering and find it as some kind of masochistic pleasure. EVERYONE at a sport tournament trains and sacrifice, that's your choice and your problem. But I won't call someone a champion just for training. Anyone can train, not everyone can be a champion.

On the other hand, what if he trains so hard and so fervently that he sacrifices everything to achive his dream. I mean he sacrifices time spent with his family. Sacrifices time spent nurturing the relationships he has previously forged and, in fact, has little use for them now. Has no respect for anything else other then the game. And anyone that cannot come up to his level of skill is treated as beaneath him. Cares little for friends and friedships and put the game above all else. Even if he wins, can he truley be considered a Champion?

See my Sampras example. Yes he is. Being an ***hole doesn't change the fact that he is the best and has developed an almost flawless performance through hard work and training. Through winning he inspires, and through his winning he advances the game.

There's an ancient parable about a man who, after being invited to a feast from an important wealthy friend, takes it upon himself to seat himself at the section of the table reserved for the most important and honored guests. Why? He just thinks he deserves it. As a result the host embarrasses him by making him go to the end of the table in full view of all his other guests.

However, another man invited to the same event, although a close friend of the host, seats himself at the far end of the table because he doesn't think himself worthy of such a lofty position. He is honored by the host and brogut to the front of the table where the honored guests are seated.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. The Host sounds like a jerk to me. Why would he go through all that trouble just to humiliate someone? Humiliation is compared to murder in the old testament. More importantly, why does he even have two sections at his own party anyway?

I don't put my faith in ancient parables. You can find some kind of old wives tale to prove just about anything. I put my faith in training and acknowleding those who are obviously better than me, regardless of their attitudes.

This is where our conception of a champion lies. In the spirit of his game. Not in how many points he has. Not in his player rating. I've seen these so called winners play there game. I have more respect and admiration for the loosers who loose graciously. The mere act of winning will never make you a champion if your actions show you don't deserve it.

I appreciate your opinion. Just don't agree with it. Champion should be an exclusive word allocated to those who have proved that they are the best by winning more than anyone else. But the world is a competative place. 2nd place just doesn't cut it anymore. History remembers the winners, not the runners-up.

What is there to respect about losing graciously? I thought it was just common courtesy to lose graciously. But watching a Champion change the game through his wins, giving the sport new and exciting methods not by sitting down and teaching people and being nice, but simply by playing his game. He's inspiring everyone around to train harder and try reach his level ? It's breath-taking, and THAT deserves respect and admiration. Deserve it? Champions earn their title through sweat and blood, no one deserves it more. If they do, they'll prove it by winning.