When do destroyed monsters go to graveyard?

[kbs8014]

Here is a quick question...

Monster A is destroyed as a result of battle.

Monster B is destroyed as a result of a monster effect during the damage step (destroyed by Man Eater Bug).

Would both monsters be sent to the graveyard at the same time?

Thanks,

 

[novastar]

It wasn't Creative Guessing but rather poor reading. When I'm wrong it's not because I'm guessing, it's because of a misunderstanding, misinterpretation, or in this case not reading a ruling correctly. Guessing is something I don't do.

I wasn't refering to you John. My comments were actually towards the Rules & FAQ setion that was being referenced to back the statement up.

I know you do your best to do your homework.

 

[kbs8014]

The reason for my initial question was because of an event at my local tourney.

DD Warrior Lady attacked a faced down Man Eater Bug.

MEB resolves first destrying DDWL. Would DDWL now go to the graveyard? Then DDWL's effect resolves, removing MEB from play.

How should this be ruled?

Thanks,

 

[novastar]

The reason for my initial question was because of an event at my local tourney.

DD Warrior Lady attacked a faced down Man Eater Bug.

MEB resolves first destrying DDWL. Would DDWL now go to the graveyard? Then DDWL's effect resolves, removing MEB from play.

How should this be ruled?

Thanks,

DD Warrior Lady would be destroyed and sent to the graveyard, and then MEB would be removed.

This would all occur during the "Resolve Effects" portion of the Damage Step.

 

[John Danker]

It would seem that there is a minor difference between the FAQ and Kevin's damage step chart yes.

The FAQ states that (in the example given) Summoned Skull and Man Eater Bug would both go to the graveyard during the "Send to the Graveyard" portion of Damage Step....

while Kevin's damage step chart states that the flip effect of Man Eater Bug would activate AND resolve in the "Resolve Effects" portion of Damage Step. (If resolution is here then one would think Man Eater Bug would send Summoned Skull to the graveyard at this point)

I'm trying to think of an instance where this would make a difference but can't conjur up one.

 

[novastar]

It would seem that there is a minor difference between the FAQ and Kevin's damage step chart yes.

The FAQ states that (in the example given) Summoned Skull and Man Eater Bug would both go to the graveyard during the "Send to the Graveyard" portion of Damage Step....

while Kevin's damage step chart states that the flip effect of Man Eater Bug would activate AND resolve in the "Resolve Effects" portion of Damage Step. (If resolution is here then one would think Man Eater Bug would send Summoned Skull to the graveyard at this point)

I'm trying to think of an instance where this would make a difference but can't conjur up one.

Well for instance the DD Warrior Lady vs. MEB example is a perfect representation of why its important.

If you sent them during the "Send to the graveyard" portion, then both monsters would be removed by DD's effect. However, we know that in this case, only MEB is removed because DD is sent by MEB's effect first.

 

[John Danker]

Well for instance the DD Warrior Lady vs. MEB example is a perfect representation of why its important.

If you sent them during the "Send to the graveyard" portion, then both monsters would be removed by DD's effect. However, we know that in this case, only MEB is removed because DD is sent by MEB's effect first.

Good point, thanks for the example (that was right under my nose no less) I'll put a post on the judge's board asking that the FAQ be modified.

 

[masterwoo0]

Every situation is going to be different. Last time I checked, Summoned Skull wasnt an effect monster, so since he has nothing to resolve once he's targeted by Man-Eater Bug's effect, he dies during the Resolve Effects portion of the Damage Step.

D.D. Warrior Lady does, however, so since her effect allows for the removal of both monsters after Damage Calculation, now you have to place her effect AS WELL AS Man-Eater Bug's effect in a Chain.

At best, the FAQ should just note that monsters that have effects that resolve after Damage Calculation, resolve in a chain, which it may already have somewhere...

 

[novastar]

Every situation is going to be different. Last time I checked, Summoned Skull wasnt an effect monster, so since he has nothing to resolve once he's targeted by Man-Eater Bug's effect, he dies during the Resolve Effects portion of the Damage Step.

D.D. Warrior Lady does, however, so since her effect allows for the removal of both monsters after Damage Calculation, now you have to place her effect AS WELL AS Man-Eater Bug's effect in a Chain.

At best, the FAQ should just note that monsters that have effects that resolve after Damage Calculation, resolve in a chain, which it may already have somewhere...

Regardless... the statement is incorrect.

"For example, "Summoned Skull" attacks a face-down "Man-Eater Bug." In the Damage Step, first "Man-Eater Bug" is flipped face-up. Then damage calculation is performed, the result of which is that "Man-Eater Bug" is destroyed. Next we resolve "Man-Eater Bug"'s effect and destroy a monster on the field (any monster, but let's pick "Summoned Skull"). Finally, in "Send to the Graveyard", both monsters are placed in the Graveyard. The result is that "Man-Eater Bug" uses its Flip Effect to destroy "Summoned Skull", BUT "Man-Eater Bug" is still destroyed by the attack."

The reason the distinction must be made is to follow the correct order of events in the event that an effect would, at any given time, change the outcome.

I cannot think off the top of my head of a clear example to illustrate , but the point is that Summoned Skull would be destroyed and sent to the graveyard due to MEB's effect (during it resolution) during the "Resolve Effects" portion, prior to MEB being sent during the "Send to the graveyard" portion.

Each situation might differ based on the effects (or lack of) involved, but the flow or order of the Damage Step does not change (unless changed by effect). I've seen many arguements regarding this, especially where Cyber Jar is concerned, but i see no reason to make a special provision here, regardless of Summoned Skull being a non-Effect Monster.

What they are doing in this example is short-cutting in order to simplify, because Summoned Skull is a Normal Monster, which to me is misleading and creates unnecessary questions.