xing zhen hu

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branas

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UDE FAQ quote:
XING ZHEN HU

You can chain one of the 2 Spell or Trap Cards on the field to the activation of "Xing Zhen Hu". However, the remaining one will not be able to be activated after "Xing Zhen Hu" resolves.

If neither of the targeted Spell or Trap Cards is on the field when "Xing Zhen Hu" resolves, then "Xing Zhen Hu" remains on the field meaninglessly.
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i can chain one of the 2 Spell or Trap Cards targeted?!?!?
why not both?
say i have 2 raigeki breaks down...
player A activates xing
player B chains with targeted raigeki break, targeting a monster
player A doesnt chain
player B chains with another raigeki break
-->so xing is left hanging after the 2 raigeki breaks resolve

or he could target my ring and barrell!!!
i know i can activate them both!
what kind of a ruling is this? :eek:
 
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Its not hard and fast, its an example. Its not saying you are limited to only being able to activate one - its talking about what would happen if you chained one only (the other one remains effected). If you get to chain both, good for you. The second ruling implies that it is possible that both selected cards could end up not being on the field when XZH resolves, which can involve having chained both to the activation of XZH.
 
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darkjason said:
Its not hard and fast, its an example. Its not saying you are limited to only being able to activate one - its talking about what would happen if you chained one only (the other one remains effected). If you get to chain both, good for you. The second ruling implies that it is possible that both selected cards could end up not being on the field when XZH resolves, which can involve having chained both to the activation of XZH.
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You might want to reread the ruling of Xing Zhen Hu.

You can chain one of the 2 Spell or Trap Cards on the field to the activation of "Xing Zhen Hu". However, the remaining one will not be able to be activated after "Xing Zhen Hu" resolves.

This is a hard and fast rule. Your suggesting that you can chain both cards to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu. However this would require you to chain two cards at the same time, and this of course, is not possible.

Only one card can be chained to the activation of any effect. Then another card can be chained to that card's activation. Once Xing Zhen Hu is activated, you can chain one of the selected cards, however, the other selected card can only be chained to activation of the previous card on the chain. Not to Xing Zhen Hu. And since you can only chain to Xing Zhen Hu's activation you cannot chain the selected card to the previous card's activation because Xing Zhen Hu's continuous effect will be immediatly applied.

The second ruling is not implying that they can both be chained. It's just leting you know that Xing Zhen Hu is going to remain on the field even if you Harpie's Feather Duster the selected set cards.
 
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Wasn't my intention to say that it wasn't in anyway 'non-binding'.

Nevertheless, should both cards that are selected for XZH be legally activatible at the time of the activation of XZH, the chain could conceivably go thus:

# player activates XZH, declaring 2 F/D S/T cards as targets of XZH
1: XZH
# opponent decides to chain
2: Face-down card 1 (say Mystical Space Typhoon on some valid target)
# player playing XZH passes, leaving opponent free to add additional link to chain
3: Face-down card 2 (say Waboku)
# both players pass

resolve as per usual, both targets of XZH were legally activated in chain to XZH's activation, both Disappear, XZH is now somewhat of a dud.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
You might want to reread the ruling of Xing Zhen Hu.

You can chain one of the 2 Spell or Trap Cards on the field to the activation of "Xing Zhen Hu". However, the remaining one will not be able to be activated after "Xing Zhen Hu" resolves.

This is a hard and fast rule. Your suggesting that you can chain both cards to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu. However this would require you to chain two cards at the same time, and this of course, is not possible.

Only one card can be chained to the activation of any effect. Then another card can be chained to that card's activation. Once Xing Zhen Hu is activated, you can chain one of the selected cards, however, the other selected card can only be chained to activation of the previous card on the chain. Not to Xing Zhen Hu. And since you can only chain to Xing Zhen Hu's activation you cannot chain the selected card to the previous card's activation because Xing Zhen Hu's continuous effect will be immediatly applied.

The second ruling is not implying that they can both be chained. It's just leting you know that Xing Zhen Hu is going to remain on the field even if you Harpie's Feather Duster the selected set cards.
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Since Xing Zhen Hu is a trap, and so spell speed 2, the only way to remove both the selected cards before it resolves would be with another spell speed 2 or 3 card. HFD and Heavy Storm are both spell speed 1 so the only card which springs to mind that would be capable of this would be Emergency Provisions.
Notice the fact that the ruling says that the second card cannot be activated AFTER XZH RESOLVES, so it's legal to activate it in the chain before XZH resolves.
Remember how priority works, the chain is only finished when both players agree that they've nothing left to add to it so if your opponent doesn't wish to add a link you are free to chain to your own card.
 
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Yeah I checked the Judges List on this and turns out you can, in fact, chain both of the selected cards to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu.

This, however dosn't seem right to me, as you should only be able to chain to the one card to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu and then Xing's effext would apply immediatly, being that it's a Continuous Trap and the second card would miss the appropriate chain point. Kevin seems to think otherwise, so I digress.

Daivahataka, what I was saying was if an already resolved Xing Zhen Hu was on your side of the field "sealing" two set cards and you activated Harpie's Feather Duster, Xing Zhen Hu would remain meaninglessly on your side of the field. I was trying to explain the second ruling and I wasn't speaking of the chain anymore.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
This, however dosn't seem right to me, as you should only be able to chain to the one card to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu and then Xing's effext would apply immediatly, being that it's a Continuous Trap and the second card would miss the appropriate chain point.....
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obviously its a moot point, since Mr. Tewart has laid down the law. Still, even though XZH is a Continuous Trap, that it cannot resolve until the chain blocks resolve in order.

If card A (targeted by XZH) chains, then it stands to reason that there must be an appropriate point given for response and further chaining. If the XZH player doesnt wish to chain to card A (by the opponent) then the opponent has every right to chain to the activation of their own card A. **XZH still has not resolved**

the opponent can choose card B (the other one targeted by XZH) to chain to card A, and let the chain resolve, so that
B
A
XZH (sits useless)

course, this is all depending on the fact that the 2 cards targeted by XZH can legally chain:p

Despite being a Continuous Trap, for it to interrupt the chaining sequence would seem to be contrary to the mechanics of the game.




anywhoo, Im not trying to dispute. I think Im just getting it ordered in my own head.....out loud. =)
 
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Ah yes. ;) Believe it or not, I actually run a Spatial Deck (very tricky) Ive found that since the majority of non monster effects are spells, and few of those are set (quickplays), that XZH was difficult to pull off.

it can work, but I wouldnt recommend more than one, unless you have added effects, like Anti-Spell Fragrance, that increase the likelyhood of getting the most bang for your buck. I prefer negation/removal over the stall.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Yeah I checked the Judges List on this and turns out you can, in fact, chain both of the selected cards to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu.

This, however dosn't seem right to me, as you should only be able to chain to the one card to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu and then Xing's effext would apply immediatly, being that it's a Continuous Trap and the second card would miss the appropriate chain point. Kevin seems to think otherwise, so I digress.
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As I've already said you can chain as many cards as you both like and have available to the activation of a card, there's no restriction to only one additional chain block like you seem to think.

Digital Jedi said:
Daivahataka, what I was saying was if an already resolved Xing Zhen Hu was on your side of the field "sealing" two set cards and you activated Harpie's Feather Duster, Xing Zhen Hu would remain meaninglessly on your side of the field. I was trying to explain the second ruling and I wasn't speaking of the chain anymore.
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What seems to be confucing you is that the second ruling on this card is talking about activating the spell/trap cards before XZH resolves, you seem to have missed that and keep thinking in terms of once it has resolved.

Digital Jedi said:
Honestly, I think It should work like Level Limit - Area B and be unchainable. Kind of makes the card pointless. But that's just me.
Click to expand...
You can chain to the activation of a continuous spell/trap card just like any other spell/trap.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Yeah I checked the Judges List on this and turns out you can, in fact, chain both of the selected cards to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu.

This, however dosn't seem right to me, as you should only be able to chain to the one card to the activation of Xing Zhen Hu and then Xing's effext would apply immediatly, being that it's a Continuous Trap and the second card would miss the Appropriate chain point. Kevin seems to think otherwise, so I digress.
Click to expand...
As I've already said you can chain as many cards as you both like and have available to the activation of a card, there's no restriction to only one additional chain block like you seem to think. If A doesn't wish to chain to B's card then B is free to add the next chain link, then A once again gets the option to add a link and so on. A chain is not complete until both players agree that they have nothing to add to it, then you begin resolving the cards in the chain.

Digital Jedi said:
Daivahataka, what I was saying was if an already resolved Xing Zhen Hu was on your side of the field "sealing" two set cards and you activated Harpie's Feather Duster, Xing Zhen Hu would remain meaninglessly on your side of the field. I was trying to explain the second ruling and I wasn't speaking of the chain anymore.
Click to expand...
What seems to be confucing you is that the second ruling on this card is talking about activating the spell/trap cards before XZH resolves, you seem to have missed that and keep thinking in terms of once it has resolved.
card registry said:
If neither of the targeted Spell or Trap Cards is on the field when "Xing Zhen Hu" resolves, then "Xing Zhen Hu" remains on the field meaninglessly
Click to expand...

Digital Jedi said:
Honestly, I think It should work like Level Limit - Area B and be unchainable. Kind of makes the card pointless. But that's just me.
Click to expand...
You can chain to the activation of a continuous spell/trap card just like any other spell/trap.
 
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The FAQ says: There are no chains with "Level Limit - Area B". This is what I was refering to.

As I said, I undersand how it works, I just disagree with it. (Which is why I digressed.) It seems to me the effect of Xing Zhen Hu would apply immediatly and the only Appropriate chain point would be the cards activation.

The second ruling is not confusing me. It is not speaking specifically of a chain. It is letting you know Xing Zhen Hu doesn't get destroyed if the two selected cards are removed from the field. The chain doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with that.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
The FAQ says: There are no chains with "Level Limit - Area B". This is what I was refering to.

As I said, I undersand how it works, I just disagree with it. (Which is why I digressed.) It seems to me the effect of Xing Zhen Hu would apply immediatly and the only Appropriate chain point would be the cards activation.

The second ruling is not confusing me. It is not speaking specifically of a chain. It is letting you know Xing Zhen Hu doesn't get destroyed if the two selected cards are removed from the field. The chain doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with that.
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The second ruling is speaking specifically of the chain started by the activation of XZH, once again I point you to the fact that it's talking about occurences BEFORE XZH RESOLVES, there can be no other chains set up until all the links in the current chain resolve. It's letting you know that it will still resolve and apply even if the two cards in the zones selected are chained to it's activation, hence why it works the way it does. So the only chain point is activation, you can't chain things to resolution anyway, you can only respond, by which time the cards blocked by XZH can't be used.
 
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