A Quick Inferno Reckless Summon Question

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LordLight2

New Member
I promise, it's brief.

IRS States that your opponent MUST have a face up monster in order to activate this card. It says nothing about actually summoning the monster. So, does that mean, if my opponent has a full field, 5 monsters all face up, then the condition for IRS has been met even though he cannot summon a monster? I believe this is a legal move, just want to be sure.
 
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Break the card text of IRS up for a moment.

"You can only activate this card when 1 monster with an ATK of 1500 points or less is Special Summoned to your side of the field while there is a face-up monster on your opponent's side of the field."
This is just an activation requirement/condition. This isn't the actual effect of the card.

"Special Summon all cards with the same name as the Summoned monster from your hand, Deck, and Graveyard in face-up Attack Position. Your opponent selects 1 monster on their side of the field and Special Summons all cards with that same name from their hand, Deck, and Graveyard."
This is the actual effect of IRS. This is what will attempt to resolve when you activate the card.

Onto your question.

If your opponent (Player B) has all of their Monster Card Zones full with monsters, any additional monsters that they're forced to attempt to summon (in this case Special Summon) will be destroyed via game mechanics and sent to the Graveyard or Remove From Play; which in this case would be just the Graveyard.
 
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Ahhhh...I was thinking they wouldn't be able to summon anything. But if they pick something that they have more of, then they will be discarded (destroyed) to the graveyard. I had not thought of that. Very nice. Thank you.
 
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LordLight2 said:
Ahhhh...I was thinking they wouldn't be able to summon anything. But if they pick something that they have more of, then they will be discarded (destroyed) to the graveyard. I had not thought of that. Very nice. Thank you.
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So if a Banisher or Macrocosmos/Dimensional Fissure is on the field when the full monster zone happens.... any copies of a monster pulled from deck/graveyard would get removed since there's no room to summon them. (evil grin)

That gives me ideas...... BWAHAHAHAHA
 
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I don't think this is accurate. If you have 5 monsters on the field, you cannot even attempt a Summon. I don't think anything would happen on the opponent's side of the field and all monsters would stay in the Deck.
 
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Ok, I'm CERTAIN that Tkwiget's post is incorrect, now that I've looked at some more rulings. The problem is that I'm not sure what is correct. I think it may be like "Magician's Circle" or "Shallow Grave" where you can't even activate it if your opponent doesn't have room for more monsters. But it just may be that the opponent cannot select a monster that has multiple copies that can be Summoned. It's not like "Spear Cretin" which forces a Summon by both sides and if they don't have the space, they don't get a Summon because "Inferno Reckless Summon" doesn't HAVE to be activated.

Anyway, I'm confused about the real ruling here, but not that Tkwiget is incorrect (sorry, twiggy-man). ;)
 
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"Enchanted Fitting Room" makes you draw the next four cards. You do not know what the next four cards will be. So, if there are appropriate monsters among those four cards, you must do something with them. The card does not allow for them to be placed back in the deck, so they must go to the Graveyard. "Inferno Reckless Summon" does not make you draw unknown cards, it makes you Summon monsters from your Deck, Hand, and Graveyard. You don't have 4 unknown cards and a forced effect for any possible monsters among them. It's not the same thing. You're specifically choosing monsters to Summon, which you can't do if you don't have room, just like you can't activate "Shallow Grave" if one player or the other does not have enough room on the field.
 
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Your forgetting, the activation requirements are all that matter for a card's proper activation. Inferno Reckless Summon's activation requirements are that you've Special Summoned 1 monster, that it's ATK is 1500 or less and that your opponent has at least 1 face-up monster. The rest is incidental to the effect, and not whether it's possible or not. Consider this http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=9404#9404. Notice he doesn't say you cannot activate it all if you don't have properly summoned monsters in the Graveyard.
 
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But even saying you cannot do something doesn't necessarily mean you can either.

I understand the whole activation requirements and resolve as much as possible. But if your opponent has a full field, he cannot resolve his part of the effect of IRS so why should he be forced to destroy any additional copies from his hand/deck?
 
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Kyhotae said:
Ok, I'm CERTAIN that Tkwiget's post is incorrect, now that I've looked at some more rulings. The problem is that I'm not sure what is correct. I think it may be like "Magician's Circle" or "Shallow Grave" where you can't even activate it if your opponent doesn't have room for more monsters.
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Where did you get the ruling that you cannot activate The Shallow Grave if your opponent cannot summon a monster because his field is full? Personally, I play it like that all the time, hoping I catch my opponent with a full field (which only 'rarely' happens when I play Stall Decks).

You and your opponent must be able to find a monster in your Graveyard at activation to summon at resolution. That is the requirement, but the resolution doesnt mean that if your opponent cannot summon, you cannot activate it.
 
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You cannot Activate Shalow Grave if either player is unable to special summon a monster (for any reason)

The only time you get to summon a monster and your opponent doesn't if something changes between activation and resolution (preventing your opponent from summoning).

If you can't summon a monster for some reason, carda in your graveyard are not legal targets to be special summoned by Shallow Grave.

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=8642
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=6923
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=1997
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=8642
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=6923
http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=1997
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The two that mention Scapegoat are obvious, because it there is a Condition preventing that player from performing a Special Summon . So even if he had available room, he couldnt. But, I disagree with the Full Field ruling. It doesnt make sense. That's like saying that if your opponent picks up 5, LV4 or below Spirit Monsters from Cyber Jar's effect, he must send them to the Graveyard because the effect of Cyber Jar doesnt say he "can or may" summon them, and since the player can't summon anything, shouldnt BOTH players be affected then?

I think just like The End of Anubis negating Exiled Force ruling was incorrect, so is this one saying The Shallow Grave can't be activated.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
The two that mention Scapegoat are obvious, because it there is a Condition preventing that player from performing a Special Summon . So even if he had available room, he couldnt. But, I disagree with the Full Field ruling. It doesnt make sense.
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If you can't special summon Gemini Elf from the graveyard it is Not a legal target to be special summoned?

What doesn't make sense about that?


That's like saying that if your opponent picks up 5, LV4 or below Spirit Monsters from Cyber Jar's effect, he must send them to the Graveyard because the effect of Cyber Jar doesnt say he "can or may" summon them, and since the player can't summon anything, shouldnt BOTH players be affected then?
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Cyber jar is not a manually activated affect, and is no comparison. Its effect activates there's no not being able to resolve its effect preventing it from being activated

And if a player's field were filled up before Shallow Grave Resolves the other player still gets to special summon monster, so again, your analogy to Cyber Jar has no relevance.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
If you can't special summon Gemini Elf from the graveyard it is Not a legal target to be special summoned?

What doesn't make sense about that?




Cyber jar is not a manually activated affect, and is no comparison. Its effect activates there's no not being able to resolve its effect preventing it from being activated

And if a player's field were filled up before Shallow Grave Resolves the other player still gets to special summon monster, so again, your analogy to Cyber Jar has no relevance.
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The question, being facetious, did not really require a equally ridiculous response.

The real question was,

"If your opponent cannot summon the 5 Spirit Monsters he picked up, why are they not destroyed or sent to the Graveyard?"

since the effect is mandatory that they be summoned.

The ridiculous, nonsensical statement was,

"Why should your opponent get to summon if you can't?"

That doesnt need to make sense to me, cause I dont really care for it to be answered, since I already know the answer. The purpose was to show that it shouldnt matter what my opponent can or can't do. He had a opportunity to, and he just couldnt.

Realizing I dont expect everyone to understand my logic, I expect it to be disagreed with, but if you dont try to understand, then don't argue against it.
 
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Cyber Jar said:
Effect Monster (Rock / DARK / 3 Stars / ATK 900 / DEF 900)

FLIP: Destroy all monsters on the field. Both players then pick up 5 cards from the top of their respective Decks and Special Summon all Level 4 or lower Monster Cards among them on the field in face-up Attack Position or face-down Defense Position. The rest of the cards picked up are added to their respective hands.
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Well, the short answer that "Cyber Jar" says that any card that was picked up and not able to be Summoned goes to the hand.

It's similar to "Enchanted Fitting Room". If you pick up a monster that the effect is not looking for, you don't have to put it in the Graveyard, it just gets shuffled back into the Deck. These cards only force the Summon of cards that can be Summoned.

Of course, this is the other reason...
UDE FAQ said:
"¢ Spirit Monsters, Toon Monsters, Ritual Monsters, etc. are sent to your hand as they cannot be Special Summoned or must be Special Summoned is a specific way.
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:bkss
;)
 
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Kyhotae said:
Well, the short answer that "Cyber Jar" says that any card that was picked up and not able to be Summoned goes to the hand.
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It doesn't say specifically that.

It picks up cards,

then it makes 2 references to the cards, "all level 4 or lower monster cards" "the rest of the cards"

So "the rest of the cards" can be interpreted from the text as meaning either waht you said above, or all the cards that are not level 4 or lower monster cards.

Therefore we have ambiguous text and rely on the rulings to say which interpretation is correct.

There's nothing illogical about Spirit Monster etc not being added to the hand.
 
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