Basic Priority Questions

[carlossilva]

... or they should be, but while browsing through several forums I've often read contradictory answers ( whether direct or implied ) so I've decided to place them here.

1. After the turn player draws a card in his/her draw phase, who has priority to activate a quickplay spell or trap card?

2. After an attack is declared by the turn player, who has priority to activate a card in response to the attack ?

3. After a chain has completely resolved, who has priority to respond to the end of the chain? ( I've read it's the turn player, I've read it's the opponent of the controller of the last effect to resolve - this last one actually came from UDE ... )

Thanks

Carlos

 

[skey23]

Wait, back up to this point....

They both agree to move into Battle Phase.
P2 asks if P1 would like to activate anything before attacking.
P1 says no, thereby passing Priority to P2.

What leads you to believe that P2 can activate anything at this point? P1 hasn't begun a chain and still has priority. P2 is going to have to wait until P1 attacks, at that point they can respond to the attack declaration. Just as if it where if P1 entered their MP1, at that point P2 can't say, "Is there anything you want to do before you summon? If not I want to begin a chain" P2 would have to wait patiently until either P1 begins a chain or summons a monster and chooses not to begin a chain...then P2 can respond to the summon.

There, post has been edited.

It now says...

They both agree to move into Battle Phase.
P1 declares attack with "Cyber Dragon".
P1 does not want to respond to attack, thereby passing priority to P2.
P2 activates "Call of the Haunted" targeting "Strike Ninja".

 

[skey23]

What leads you to believe that P2 can activate anything at this point? P1 hasn't begun a chain and still has priority.

To 'officially' answer this question, I will refer to the 'semi-but not really official-official' battle phase chart.

1. Start Step:
   • Turn player declares that he/she is entering the Battle Phase.
   • Turn player has the priority to activate Spell Speed 2 here.

If the Turn Player is NOT going to activate anything at this point, then they MUST pass to the opponent, who can start the chain.

 

[novastar]

You can only respond to a summon with certain cards. Torrential Tribute cannot be chained to an effect from a card that has already been on the field for a turn.

You see i've always seem this as a misconception.

Cards like Torry T, BTH and the like don't actually "respond to the summon" it is the summon timing that gives them the activation requirements neccessary to activate, in a sense a triggering event. They can be activated anywhere along the chain.

Technically every effect in a Summon Response Chain is in response to the summon, it just so happens that cards like BTH TT require that specific timing, while others don't.

Counter Traps, and Multi-Triggers (in most cases) actually "respond" and Royal Oppression is an exception to the rule. Anyway, moot point...just my thoughts.

Back to Priority.

 

[Jason_C]

If the Turn Player is NOT going to activate anything at this point, then they MUST pass to the opponent, who can start the chain.

This is absolutely, 100% crucial to the debate. If a person doesn't want to activate something, they MUST pass priority. However much they may not want to, however turn player-ish they may be, they CANNOT simply choose not to activate something without effectively surrendering priority to the opponent. And once they've done this, they can't change their mind and activate something else if the opponent passes again. Otherwise, the game would be incapable of proceeding.

Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?

...and this could continue indefinitely, with the players becoming increasingly bored, their gaze more and more inattentive, and their speech more and more slurred as they lose interest in a game which can never proceed to another phase, or even another step of the phase... .....they can never proceed because passing does not really mean "passing". However, they won't just quit, because they are confident that, sometime very soon, they will get an e-mail from Kevin explaining priority...

...what a sad fate...

<EDIT: Welcome to my sig, novastar>

 

[novastar]

To 'officially' answer this question, I will refer to the 'semi-but not really official-official' battle phase chart.

1. Start Step:
   • Turn player declares that he/she is entering the Battle Phase.
   • Turn player has the priority to activate Spell Speed 2 here.

If the Turn Player is NOT going to activate anything at this point, then they MUST pass to the opponent, who can start the chain.

Yes, thats correct...and if the OP passes, you move to the Battle Step.

 

[John Danker]

To 'officially' answer this question, I will refer to the 'semi-but not really official-official' battle phase chart.

1. Start Step:
   • Turn player declares that he/she is entering the Battle Phase.
   • Turn player has the priority to activate Spell Speed 2 here.

If the Turn Player is NOT going to activate anything at this point, then they MUST pass to the opponent, who can start the chain.

I'm going to have to claim complete (and embarrasing but honest) ignorance here. To what 'semi-but not really official-official' battle phase chart are you referring to...a link please?

 

[skey23]

I'm going to have to claim complete (and embarrasing but honest) ignorance here. To what 'semi-but not really official-official' battle phase chart are you referring to...a link please?

Why here on COG silly...
http://www.cogonline.net/threads.6503

 

[John Danker]

So it's an article....I see, interesting enough and I'm not discounting it....yet.

So then, if we're looking at logical, structured, and consistant mechanics and rulings would it be safe to assume that the same type mechanics would be applied to MP1 or MP2? In other words, would it be safe to say ....(keep in mind I'm completely laying out a scenario for discussion here only)

P1 enters MP1

P2 asks if P1 wants to begin a chain before P1 is allowed to summon.

P1 responds no and passes priority to P2???

 

[slither]

Precisely correct, upon entering any phase the same scenario would occur.

 

[skey23]

Yes, that's where I was going with that. Since the Turn Player has/retains Priority when entering any Phase, it is, IMHO, completely acceptable for the Non-Turn Player to inquire as to the Turn Player's intentions. If the Turn Player does not intend to 'immediately' (used VERY LOOSELY here) activate an effect or Summon a monster, then they are essentially passing Priority to the Non-Turn Player, who can then begin a chain.

[edit]Let me 'clarify' what I mean here..just in case..lol. If the Turn player is asked if they intend to activate (or Summon) upon entering a phase and they decline, THEN they are, in essence, agreeing to pass Priority to the opponent. If they are never asked, then they don't ever pass until they do something. (My opinion here)

I agree that upon entering a phase, the Non-Turn Player cannot just immediately activate an effect. The don't have Priority and they MUST wait for the Turn Player to activate an effect, summon, or simply pass Priority.


Grrr...You're beating me to the punch here!...lol. I was heading this direction with my scenario questions!

 

[Jason_C]

P1 enters MP1

P2 asks if P1 wants to begin a chain before P1 is allowed to summon.

P1 responds no and passes priority to P2???

Why wouldn't P1 be allowed to summon? Is it illegal to use the response window for entering a phase to summon? I suppose that makes sense. Assuming that is the case, then yes, that is indeed a logical and viable scenario.

<EDIT: TWO PEOPLE BUTTED IN ON THAT ONE!!!!!!!>

 

[skey23]

So it's an article....I see, interesting enough and I'm not discounting it....yet.

Hence why I called it a "semi-but not really official-official" source. Since the underlying structure came from Kevin himself....lol.

 

[novastar]

So it's an article....I see, interesting enough and I'm not discounting it....yet.

So then, if we're looking at logical, structured, and consistant mechanics and rulings would it be safe to assume that the same type mechanics would be applied to MP1 or MP2? In other words, would it be safe to say ....(keep in mind I'm completely laying out a scenario for discussion here only)

P1 enters MP1

P2 asks if P1 wants to begin a chain before P1 is allowed to summon.

P1 responds no and passes priority to P2???

No Main Phase is slightly different.

You start with a Priority Point that is non-response. This allows you to perform "slow" actions, like activating a Spell Speed 1 or a Normal/Tribute Summon.

The Battle Phase chart is refring to the Start Step, which is a chain point prior to the Battle Step.

 

[Jason_C]

No Main Phase is slightly different.

You start with a Priority Point that is non-response. This allows you to perfrom "slow" actions, like activating a Spell Speed 1 or a Normal/Tribute Summon.

The Battle Phase chart is refring to the Start Step, which is a chain point prior to the Battle Step.

Then you're saying one CAN summon immediately into the Main Phase? So I was right?

But the fact remains that when the MP is entered, TP can either do something, or pass. As is the case in all situations when TP has priority

 

[novastar]

Then you're saying one CAN summon immediately into the Main Phase? So I was right?

But the fact remains that when the MP is entered, TP can either do something, or pass. As is the case in all situations when TP has priority

Absolutely... you can perform a summon a your first action when you are given priority at the start of the Main Phase.

This is provided a Trigger doesn't activate nullifying that.

 

[skey23]

Ok John, you've 'corrected' my wording from the question I posted back on #89, but you didn't give your answer to it, neither has Nova. We've gotten Jason_C's response, and I understand it, but what say some others? Anthony_J? DaGuy?

[edit]Wow, this thread is going in like 4 different directions all at once!...Yay!

 

[slither]

Absolutely... you can perform a summon a your first action when you are given priority at the start of the Main Phase.

This is provided a Trigger doesn't activate nullifying that.

I was under the impression that the first event to happen was the "phase change", which in any case it would still lead up to a response (first by the TP next by the Opp) to the Phase entering even during the MP's, this all happening even before TP can summon a monster.

 

[novastar]

Ok, so let's make it the Non-Turn Player this time.

It's P1s turn.
P1 Special Summons "Cyber Dragon".
P1 retains Priority, but passes.
P2 passes on response.
They both agree to move into Battle Phase.
P1 declares attack with "Cyber Dragon".
P1 does not want to respond to attack, thereby passing priority to P2.
P2 activates "Call of the Haunted" targeting "Strike Ninja".
P1 responds with "Royal Decree".
P2 responds with "Mystical Space Typhoon" targeting the "Royal Decree".
P1 does not respond.
Chain resolves and the last thing to happen is "Strike Ninja" being Special Summoned by P2.

Now, does P2 retain Priority to activate "Strike Ninja"s effect, since it IS a Multi-Trigger? Or does Priority automatically pass back to P1, the Turn Player, who wants to activate "Bottomless Trap Hole"?

Thanks.

My thinking is and always has been that since it's not your turn...you don't get Priority first.

So with my thinking, P1 would get Priority because it's his/her turn, and activate BTH, then P2 could activate SN's effect.

Now, going with Dan's logic...P1 would also get Priority, but because Call was P2's effect and the last to resolve.

 

[Jason_C]

I was under the impression that the first event to happen was the "phase change", which in any case it would still lead up to a response (first by the TP next by the Opp) to the Phase entering even during the MP's, this all happening even before TP can summon a monster.

I see no reason for that to be so. There are no restrictions on what can and cannot be activated in response to the entering of the Main Phase, with the exception of cards such as Sinister Serpent. Anything of any spell speed may be used at the beginning of that phase. By either player, although TP gets first crack at it.

 

[novastar]

I was under the impression that the first event to happen was the "phase change", which in any case it would still lead up to a response (first by the TP next by the Opp) to the Phase entering even during the MP's, this all happening even before TP can summon a monster.

As far as i understand, there is no "Phase/Step Change Response Chain" timing.

There might be some conditional triggers that activate "at the start of a Phase/Step" but this is not a timing window like the one created by a summon event.