Basic Priority Questions

[carlossilva]

... or they should be, but while browsing through several forums I've often read contradictory answers ( whether direct or implied ) so I've decided to place them here.

1. After the turn player draws a card in his/her draw phase, who has priority to activate a quickplay spell or trap card?

2. After an attack is declared by the turn player, who has priority to activate a card in response to the attack ?

3. After a chain has completely resolved, who has priority to respond to the end of the chain? ( I've read it's the turn player, I've read it's the opponent of the controller of the last effect to resolve - this last one actually came from UDE ... )

Thanks

Carlos

 

[Jason_C]

Masterwoo0: I've never heard that saying before. But I see how it applies.

 

[masterwoo0]

Masterwoo0: I've never heard that saying before. But I see how it applies.

Thanks for making me feel older than I really felt 2 minutes ago... lol

Just in case there are more out there who havent heard it as well, it basically means

gold=power

The person who has the most power can make any changes they want too, and we just follow along.

 

[slither]

I had heard it before, theres also one somewhat similar to it <can't remeber exactly how it goes, but it goes something like this>

The hen with the most eggs, is the last to hit the frying pan.

<something alongs those lines anyways =P>

 

[anthonyj]

I wish I had more time to participate today. I've been meaning to ask. Do we actually have anything in print on the Judge's List or anywhere else that states that the Turn Player retains Priority after an effect like Monster Reborn resolves? I've seen it stated a few times now that after a Special Summon the Turn Player always has Priority but that seems like a very strange arrangement (since the non-turn player can also Special Summon and they don't get to retain Priority). Why should Priority pass if I activate and resolve Desert Sunlight (which may very well give me some effect monsters that I can now activate) but be retained if I activate and resolve Call of the Haunted?

Yet if a special summon from an outside effect passed priority this obviously would bring into question Ritual Monsters like Dark Master Zorc, and Fusion Monsters like King Dragon. For Konami to sit on this information for so very long tells me that they have not got it all straight on how things should work and that the game is to some degree "broken" in this area without a final decision having been made on how it will be.

 

[novastar]

Throw all the reasons you want in to the mix. But it all boils down to the fact that there are too many cards out there that both the OCG and the TCG dont share as of yet, along with new cards neither side have, that make putting anything concrete, totally insane, since it could very well change 180 degrees from just one card effect.

This is precisely the design constraint that card game designers have to face.

However, the advantage Konami has is simple...they create the rules...and they create the cards.

Having a concrete outline of Priority is definately possible IF, and only if, Konami were to stop, step back and create a framework. Thus setting a precedence for future card releases to fit into that framework. This would of course involve card text changes to older cards, and adjustments with other rules as well. In a nutshell, rewrite and redefine the game.

Impossible? ...no...daunting? ...yes.

But trickling stuff out over a period of ten years...is not the way to go...

The main reason Priority has not been defined, is the same reason we are disgruntled...they simply took too long.

That's the reason rules/mechanics should be written and ironed out before ever releasing a single card..."an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure." but we should also keep in mind, that even games like M:tg still change and evolve, even from the fundamental mechanics, the rules do change over time... but the core remains the same, and it's much more solid than YGO.

My guess is that this will simply never happen...

 

[John Danker]

novastar...I think you've hit the nail on the head there. If we've been trying to pull a definition from them for over a year and a half what would possibly lead us to believe that they'll ever invest the time and effort to make it all right with the Yugioh world ever?

As you stated...daunting...which equals, too much time, effort, and money.

 

[Jason_C]

As you stated...daunting...which equals, too much time, effort, and money.

I would think the task in and of itself wouldn't be too terribly difficult. The problem, IMHO (yeah, right, because I know SOOOOO much about owning and operating a business... :| ) is really that Konami would be looking back instead of forward. I can't claim to be an expert on Japanese culture, but from what I've heard, most of them (emphasis on the word "most", not all) like to make money fast, and don't want to ever turn around and look at the past when they know they've got effective plans for the future. Looking at what novastar said...

Having a concrete outline of Priority is definately possible IF, and only if, Konami were to stop,

...you'll note the word I've bolded and underlined. I wouldn't say fixing this game would be too terribly difficult. But it would mean postponing release of new sets, which would mean a lull in money-making, which is a bad thing.

Just my thoughts...

 

[novastar]

Just out of curiousity John, have you ever though of asking Gary, Dave or any of the other guys to join us here in this forum. You want mechanical talk, and understanding, these are the guys to have. We unfortunately have lost D to VS...

It would be an awesome experience for a lot of people... we always had great discussions on realms a looong time ago (back even in the Demo Team days ). It's much better here because we can really speak freely.

Run it by them, i'd love to have them here... now if only i could get GameRookie here...

 

[John Danker]

Gary too we've somewhat "lost" He's burned out on judging...especially Yugioh. I think the local crowd he judges is often hell on him Supplying him with never ending headaches. Gary has moved into an almost purely T.O. role.

You say we've lost Dave Brent to VS.? First I've heard of that.

I'll tell you what I WILL do though. I'll ask John Williams to check in. John W. enjoys bantering around thought patterns as much as we do. I'll also see if I can get Simon Sangpukdee, Franklin Debrito, and Feroze Ramcharan to chime in.

We should dunk Jeff Richardson's head under water to wake him up <nudge> as he's a premeir contributer here and a L3....I'd love to see him put his 2 cents in more often.

It would be nice to see Julia's input more often but she's pretty swamped writing for Metagame as is Jason.

 

[novastar]

lol...by D i ment Jeremy (Dlanaan)... hes over on vsrealms all the time...i think he got sick of YGO.

Dave....never... he's a YGO guy for life... he did try out on the VS, but i think he gave up lol!

I can see Gary getting burned out... hard worker...one of the originals for sure.

At any rate see what you can do.

 

[masterwoo0]

Whatever happened to Steve Okegawa?? Did he Drop Off the map as well? Havent seem hide nor hair of him in awhile....

 

[novastar]

He mods pojo... i see him there most of the time.

 

[masterwoo0]

Oh... no wonder I never see him. :icon_neut

 

[djp952]

novastar...I think you've hit the nail on the head there. If we've been trying to pull a definition from them for over a year and a half what would possibly lead us to believe that they'll ever invest the time and effort to make it all right with the Yugioh world ever?

As you stated...daunting...which equals, too much time, effort, and money.

<shameless off topic preaching>
This is why people like bishop worked so hard on the original NetRep program before certain individual(s) decided to take it upon themselves to destroy it.

Let me throw this out there ... there is NO reason that a team of people from, I don't know, HERE could not band together and come up with their own definition for these things, rewrite the rules, do what needs to be done. Obviously these "rules" could not be used in UDE/Konami sanctioned events, but many of us, myself included, spend most of our time in the 'casual' world, and could really benefit from this.

And you never know, perhaps if you were to contact Konami after you've done such a thing they might be willing to listen. If they don't care to do the work themselves, only pride would stop them from letting someone else do it. Unfortunately, by their very culture they ARE proud, and it would be a horribly tough sell.

You won't know unless you try, and the worst thing that could happen is that COGgers would have a solid set of casual dueling rules to follow, and that ain't bad.
</shameless off topic preaching>

 

[masterwoo0]

<shameless off topic preaching>

You won't know unless you try, and the worst thing that could happen is that COGgers would have a solid set of casual dueling rules to follow, and that ain't bad.
</shameless off topic preaching>

BLASPHEMER!!!

That's just plain Sacrilegious!!

You sir, are suggesting the end of all that is Holy!!!!!

 

[Raijinili]

Whatever happened to Steve Okegawa?? Did he Drop Off the map as well? Havent seem hide nor hair of him in awhile....

He's in a difficult position. What he says is gospel, but he actually doesn't know anything. So anything he posts would probably get him in trouble.

Oh, I think he's in college now, too.

This is absolutely, 100% crucial to the debate. If a person doesn't want to activate something, they MUST pass priority. However much they may not want to, however turn player-ish they may be, they CANNOT simply choose not to activate something without effectively surrendering priority to the opponent. And once they've done this, they can't change their mind and activate something else if the opponent passes again. Otherwise, the game would be incapable of proceeding.

Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?
Durr... I dun wanna activate anything... Do you?
Nope... Uh... I don wanna activate anything, do you?

...and this could continue indefinitely, with the players becoming increasingly bored, their gaze more and more inattentive, and their speech more and more slurred as they lose interest in a game which can never proceed to another phase, or even another step of the phase... .....they can never proceed because passing does not really mean "passing". However, they won't just quit, because they are confident that, sometime very soon, they will get an e-mail from Kevin explaining priority...

Actually, the phase would end since neither player want to activate anything.

 

[Jason_C]

Actually, the phase would end since neither player want to activate anything.

Correct, of course. That's my point. If passing priority is not honestly and truly passing, then the duel can never proceed. I believe novastar once called it "a glaring flaw" which effectively proves false Mr. Tewart's ruling that, if P1 summons Gemini Elf, and passes, then P2 passes again, P1 can now activate Torrential Tribute. If that were the case, passing wouldn't be passing, and the duel would never move to a different phase.

But that's NOT the case, as you and nova and I have said, so it can indeed proceed.

 

[John Danker]

As I've stated before, you're over complicating that issue.

I choose to end my battle phase, do you wish to activate anything before I move on to main phase 2?

If yes, activate it...

If no, then it's been aGreed that the battle phase ends and it does.

How is that difficult?

 

[John Danker]

On another and not so related note (which is why I put it in a seperate post directly after the previous one)

I've started the thread on priority (from which I posted Dan's quote) back up questioning about weather non turn player may begin a chain in battle phase before the turn player either..

A Attacks
B Begins a chain
C Declares they would like to end their battle phase

I've recieved feedback from other judges including Jason G....I'm hoping Dan or Kevin will pipe in. I'm also pushing to have Dan's post put on the general judge's list.

I'm working on it folks, that's the best I can do at this point.

 

[novastar]

Well...

< End Step >

TP Pass
OP Pass

</ End Step >
</ Battle Phase >

Simple enough...