Basic Priority Questions

[carlossilva]

... or they should be, but while browsing through several forums I've often read contradictory answers ( whether direct or implied ) so I've decided to place them here.

1. After the turn player draws a card in his/her draw phase, who has priority to activate a quickplay spell or trap card?

2. After an attack is declared by the turn player, who has priority to activate a card in response to the attack ?

3. After a chain has completely resolved, who has priority to respond to the end of the chain? ( I've read it's the turn player, I've read it's the opponent of the controller of the last effect to resolve - this last one actually came from UDE ... )

Thanks

Carlos

 

[novastar]

It's as simple as it is when turn player enters MP 1 and summons Exiled Force...who has priority then? Same thing.
As Dan said, the only glitch is when the chain ends in a summon.

It's not.

In your example of Exiled, the Turn Player keeps priority, and can use Exiled.

In Dan's Call example, Call's resolution, gives Priority to the opponent, thus rendering you unable to use the Ignition Effect of your newly summoned monster.

You need one system that works for all in this case. You can't have one set of mechanics for a summon (by effect resolution) and one for "everything" else. You either are given Priority or not... and i have never, ever heard of resolution giving up Priority (even with the limited documentation i have), infact Dan's post is the first i've seen...

Weather we like it or not, until such time as Konami decides to get off their kester and publish a full explination of priority (I'm still completely amazed at the lack of their responsability and absolutely ignoring this issue) Kevin and Dan ARE indeed the end all. They know as much or more than any of us do. I'm absolutely certain they've had much more contact and discussion with Konami than any of us.

That last paragraph may have sounded a little harsh. My appologies for that.

Not a problem John, no need to appologize, we all have our own thoughts on the matter. While i don't share in your thoughts concerning UDE (and the main rulings guys), i still respect it. I also don't want you to think that i have anything but the utmost respect for yourself as well.

What we don't do anybody any favors by is telling them that what UDE has decided is the ruling is incorrect and ruling as we see fit.

I'd have to disagree... the info needs to get out there. Players need to push for more accurate and stable rules/rulings that make sense, and fit into a smooth structure. That can only be accomplished by challenging them and pushing the issue. Calling them out, when they are wrong.

Telling everyone that we have a "preconcieved" notion sounds more like a marketing ploy to make UDE sound like they had the right answer all along...which we know is incorrect, i've been around this for far too long to buy into that. I honestly don't care for the politics... i just want something in real print. I myself, put together thoughts from piecing together various sources/rulings/logic/games over years... i kinda get insulted by UDE's dismissal of that and others that work hard for the players. I go on these forums to help a lot of people... and learn more for myself.

The only real truth is that we don't have "Official" rules on this, and a LV3 forum post isn't official, and IMO should not be used in tournaments. I'm talking about this specific issue...for other smaller issues, it's not a big deal. Now, put it on the YGO website, in Advanced Rules section...and then we talk. They haven't, and my guess is that they are not allowed to, because Konami has not given them any approved rules of Priority. So, i for one, definately take what they say with a HUGE grain of salt.

It should be clearly understood by everyone that plays this game that UDE does not make rules/rulings... Konami does... and until we see something clearly defined by them... it's all talk, even from Kevin and gang.

From now on, i'm going to wipe my thoughts on Priority and see where it takes me, and wait on the subject until one day we get hard text we can work with. Lets all stop guessing, and get concrete rules.

 

[daivahataka]

Weather we like it or not, until such time as Konami decides to get off their kester and publish a full explination of priority (I'm still completely amazed at the lack of their responsability and absolutely ignoring this issue) Kevin and Dan ARE indeed the end all. They know as much or more than any of us do. I'm absolutely certain they've had much more contact and discussion with Konami than any of us.

Just reminding people that the Judge list (Kevin and Dan's main output location) is not actually official (hence the blight of the ever lingering EoA vs Exiled, now if they'd only get off their collective asses to fix the typo regarding Skill Drain we could bury the issue once and for all) so until information posted there is mirrored on the main UDE site we can stick our fingers in our ears and ignore it for as long as we like, we obviously shouldn't really but we can. Think of it as a form of quality control, the posts by Kevin and Dan on the Judge list may have errors as, like the rest of us, they are only human and so can get things wrong, once what they've said has been verified it goes up on the main UDE site. So if you want to stick to official rulings ignore the Judge list, if you want to be up to speed on rulings read every post there.

 

[John Danker]

It's not.

In your example of Exiled, the Turn Player keeps priority, and can use Exiled.

In Dan's Call example, Call's resolution, gives Priority to the opponent, thus rendering you unable to use the Ignition Effect of your newly summoned monster.

Lets take another look at Dan's example.
---------------------------------------------------
Player B (Non turn player) activates "Call of the Haunted". Neither player chain anything,
and Player B (Non turn player) finishes his Special Summon.

Priority is passed pack to Player A (Turn player). He Flip Summons Jinzo. Since he
just performed a Summon, he retains priority only to activate an
Ignition or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap. If he decides not to activate
one of those kind of effects - Priority passes to Player B (Non turn player).
-----------------------------------------
Notice that chain ended by the non-turn player having a special summon. The chain, when ending in a summon passes back to the turn player regardless of who special summoned the monster in the chain.

You need one system that works for all in this case. You can't have one set of mechanics for a summon (by effect resolution) and one for "everything" else. You either are given Priority or not... and i have never, ever heard of resolution giving up Priority (even with the limited documentation i have), infact Dan's post is the first i've seen....

My question is....Why? Why MUST we have one system that works for all in this case? With so many other exceptions to the rule of thumb in this game what makes us think priority will be different and be all inclusive? Quite honestly I've "heard" of this very concept about a year and a half ago. I must digress though, it's from the very same people that you're discounting. Dan and Kevin's hands are tied on giving the full explaination of priority until the full explination is given the okay by Konami, something they've been dragging their feet on for about that same amount of time....a year and a half. Completely irresponsable in my eyes and I'm certain everyone else's.

Not a problem John, no need to appologize, we all have our own thoughts on the matter. While i don't share in your thoughts concerning UDE (and the main rulings guys), i still respect it. I also don't want you to think that i have anything but the utmost respect for yourself as well.

In part there is a need for me to appologize. I don't want anyone thinking I don't appreciate their efforts and genuine concern to get this all ironed out. It's because of such people that we indeed have made great progress. I think we're all in agreement that it's not the fault of such people that there is a problem. If the correct care were taken in the first place to make concepts introduced into the game well defined we wouldn't have to be having this conversation in the first place....which is likely what you're pointing to in the below paragraph.

I'd have to disagree... the info needs to get out there. Players need to push for more accurate and stable rules/rulings that make sense, and fit into a smooth structure. That can only be accomplished by challenging them and pushing the issue. Calling them out, when they are wrong.

Telling everyone that we have a "preconcieved" notion sounds more like a marketing ploy to make UDE sound like they had the right answer all along...which we know is incorrect, i've been around this for far too long to buy into that. I honestly don't care for the politics... i just want something in real print. I myself, put together thoughts from piecing together various sources/rulings/logic/games over years... i kinda get insulted by UDE's dismissal of that and others that work hard for the players. I go on these forums to help a lot of people... and learn more for myself.

What I'm referring to by preconcieved ideas is the very fact that you point out in the paragraph below this one...that being that the only real truth is we don't have "Official" rules on this. So how is it that UDE is wrong? If we have only how "we" view priority and no definition then I don't think labeling thought patterns outside of Konami or UDE as preconcieved is incorrect.

The only real truth is that we don't have "Official" rules on this, and a LV3 forum post isn't official, and IMO should not be used in tournaments. I'm talking about this specific issue...for other smaller issues, it's not a big deal. Now, put it on the YGO website, in Advanced Rules section...and then we talk. They haven't, and my guess is that they are not allowed to, because Konami has not given them any approved rules of Priority. So, i for one, definately take what they say with a HUGE grain of salt.

It should be clearly understood by everyone that plays this game that UDE does not make rules/rulings... Konami does... and until we see something clearly defined by them... it's all talk, even from Kevin and gang.

I see your point in part but only in part. I think it would be silly to assume that we are better informed about the mechanics and rulings of this game than UDE is. You're correct in that Konami makes the rules (though changes are indeed influenced more than you may realize by even members of this forum than you likely realize) If we were to completely discount UDE's input, which, cannot be given without Konami's consent, then we would be in a very poor position translating all the rulings ourselves. UDE has direct face to face contact with Konami many times a year for days on end concerning these and other rules questions. I think it a bit odd that we would assume a better understanding than they.

From now on, i'm going to wipe my thoughts on Priority and see where it takes me, and wait on the subject until one day we get hard text we can work with. Lets all stop guessing, and get concrete rules.

I'm sure we'd all LOVE to get concrete rules. That's why we're having this thread though isn't it? We can't GET concrete rules from the very source that SHOULD be clearing them all up from the get go "¦and the same source to which you're so readily willing to throw Kevin and Dan aside to look to.

Again, I'm sounding harsh. It's not meant to. Again, I appreciate all the input. In final thought, we CAN'T just stop guessing (at least not in a judge role) because we're FORCED to make rulings concerning the topic. The most official and reliable source we have IS UDE right now, it makes sense to go (at least at this point) with the definition of those that have sanctioned us as judges.

 

[Duelmaster]

-------------------------------------------------------

So in your example is Player A's Main Phase, so he starts with the
Priority (it is his turn after all).

He Summons Tsukuyomi. Its trigger effects starts a chain. (After a
Summon player A would normally retain priority to activate an Ignition
Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap, but Tsukuyomi's Trigger Effect
must start a chain).

He targets Jinzo. The opponent may chain an effect, but does not. The
turn player may chain an effect, but does not.

Jinzo is flipped face-down.

Priority is now passed to Player B.

Player B activates "Call of the Haunted". Neither player chain anything,
and Player B finishes his Special Summon.

Priority is passed pack to Player A. He Flip Summons Jinzo. Since he
just performed a Summon, he retains priority only to activate an
Ignition or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap. If he decides not to activate
one of those kind of effects - Priority passes to Player B.

Do you see how priority is passed back-and-forth between the players,
with the only hiccup being when the turn player performs a Summon.

It's not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be - and there is
only 1 kind of priority.

Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment

-------------------------------------------------------

I have some questions about for what do you get Priority.


The Turn Player enters his Main Phase 1, and got Priority now. But got the Turn Player in Main Phase 1 Priority to summons a monster ? And then he automatically gets Priority to activate an Ignition-Effect, Normal Spell Card or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap (if the monster summonsed didn't have a Trigger-Effect). Dan's message didn't notice anything about when you enter a phase as the Turn Player that you then got Priority to activate a Ignition-Effect, Normal Spell Card or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap (he only said that you can activate that when you summonsed a monster a the Turn Player). He just said when you enter a Phase as Turn Player you then got Priority. So that means you got Priority to activate and do what ever you want?

Player B activates "Call of the Haunted". Neither player chain anything,
and Player B finishes his Special Summon.

Priority is passed pack to Player A. He Flip Summons Jinzo.

I think this confirms that if you got Priority you can use it to Summons a monster?


-------------------------------------------------------
This means that this is Legal, and the way Priority can go?

Player A (the Turn Player) activates Mystical Space Typhoon in the Standby Phase Player B doesn't chain neither does Player A and the chain resolves and Mystical Space Typhoon destroys a set Spell/Trap of Player B, now Player B got Priority but doesn't use it and they both agree to continue to Main Phase 1.

Then in Main Phase 1 Player A got Priority and (Tribute) Summons his monster Jinzo so that Player B can't activate Traps. And because Player A just summonsed a monster he/she got Priority to activate an Ignition-Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap. Player A activates his set Mystical Space Typhoon (I know it's restricted to one), Player B doesn't chain and then Player A doesn't chain either. So now Player B got Priority. He/she pass Priority and Player A Flip-Summons his set Magician of Faith. Magician of Faith's effect becomes Chain Link 1 (doesn't it should be if the monster hasn't got a Flip-Effect or a Trigger-Effect then the Turn Player can activate an Ignition-Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap after a summons of the Turn Player) and Player B doesn't chain. So Magician of Faith's effect resolves. Priority is passed to Player B.

He targets Jinzo. The opponent may chain an effect, but does not. The
turn player may chain an effect, but does not.

Jinzo is flipped face-down.

Priority is now passed to Player B.

If Player B chained and Player A didn't chain (now may Player B can chain to his/her own effect but doesn't so he/she pass Priority to Player A) then Player A got Priority to summons a monster or to use an Ignition-Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap.

 

[Raijinili]

You can't have one set of mechanics for a summon (by effect resolution) and one for "everything" else.

Yes you can. Royal Oppression. :icon_mrgr

Although I probably missed what you mean.

 

[John Danker]

I have some questions about for what do you get Priority.


The Turn Player enters his Main Phase 1, and got Priority now. But got the Turn Player in Main Phase 1 Priority to summons a monster ?

The turn player has priority at the beginning of any given phase to begin a chain. Since in their main phase 1 they haven't begun a chain, even after summoning a monster, they retain priority after they've summoned a monster unless a chain has begun by virtue of the fact that a monster was summoned (such may be the case if something such as Mysterious Puppetier is face up on the field)

And then he automatically gets Priority to activate an Ignition-Effect, Normal Spell Card or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap (if the monster summonsed didn't have a Trigger-Effect).

The turn player doesn't "Get" priority after the summon, the turn player already HAS priority by virtue of the fact that they haven't begun a chain yet.

Dan's message didn't notice anything about when you enter a phase as the Turn Player that you then got Priority to activate a Ignition-Effect, Normal Spell Card or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap (he only said that you can activate that when you summonsed a monster a the Turn Player). He just said when you enter a Phase as Turn Player you then got Priority. So that means you got Priority to activate and do what ever you want?

Dan's intention wasn't to completely outline all of priority in that post, he was answering a questioned posed to him. As I stated earlier in this post, turn player has priority upon entering any phase of their turn to begin a chain, weather that be a spell, trap, or monster card effect.

I think this confirms that if you got Priority you can use it to Summons a monster?

If you're the turn player you don't "use up" your priority by summoning a monster nor do you "use" priority to summon a monster. If you haven't begun a chain yet in main phase 1 or 2 you simply summon a monster, since you haven't begun a chain yet you still have priority to begin a chain after the summon of a monster, if you choose not to use that priority after the monster is summoned your opponent may respond to the summon.


-------------------------------------------------------
This means that this is Legal, and the way Priority can go?

Player A (the Turn Player) activates Mystical Space Typhoon in the Standby Phase Player B doesn't chain neither does Player A and the chain resolves and Mystical Space Typhoon destroys a set Spell/Trap of Player B, now Player B got Priority but doesn't use it and they both agree to continue to Main Phase 1.

Good so far

Then in Main Phase 1 Player A got Priority and (Tribute) Summons his monster Jinzo so that Player B can't activate Traps. And because Player A just summonsed a monster he/she got Priority to activate an Ignition-Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap..

Player A doesn't have priority because they summoned a monster, remember it's not the monster that has priority, it's the player. Player A has priority at this point because they have yet to begin a chain. If they choose not to begin a chain at this point then player B would be able to respond to the summon. It would be better worded to say that Player A STILL has priority after the summon.

Player A activates his set Mystical Space Typhoon (I know it's restricted to one), Player B doesn't chain and then Player A doesn't chain either. So now Player B got Priority. He/she pass Priority and Player A Flip-Summons his set Magician of Faith. Magician of Faith's effect becomes Chain Link 1 (doesn't it should be if the monster hasn't got a Flip-Effect or a Trigger-Effect then the Turn Player can activate an Ignition-Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap after a summons of the Turn Player) and Player B doesn't chain. So Magician of Faith's effect resolves. Priority is passed to Player B.

Bingo man, you've got it down as fair as the scenario you've described so far.

If Player B chained and Player A didn't chain (now may Player B can chain to his/her own effect but doesn't so he/she pass Priority to Player A) then Player A got Priority to summons a monster or to use an Ignition-Effect or Spell Speed 2 Spell or Trap.

This is where you're a little off. I'm assuming that you mean that Player B chained to the effect of Magician of Faith. Lets say that's the case. Magician of Faith's effect is still the last thing to resolve so priority passes to player B. If player B doesn't wish to begin a chain at this point then priority passes back to turn player. Again, turn player doesn't have priority to summon, they have priority to begin a chain. They can choose to summon and haven't yet passed priority.

 

[Duelmaster]

This is where you're a little off. I'm assuming that you mean that Player B chained to the effect of Magician of Faith. Lets say that's the case. Magician of Faith's effect is still the last thing to resolve so priority passes to player B. If player B doesn't wish to begin a chain at this point then priority passes back to turn player. Again, turn player doesn't have priority to summon, they have priority to begin a chain. They can choose to summon and haven't yet passed priority.

I had it about this situation (you maybe didn't read it when you answered because when you quote it you didn't got it).


He targets Jinzo. The opponent may chain an effect, but does not. The
turn player may chain an effect, but does not.

Jinzo is flipped face-down.

Priority is now passed to Player B.

Again, turn player doesn't have priority to summon, they have priority to begin a chain. They can choose to summon and haven't yet passed priority.

When may Player B start a chain, when they get Priority I understand that but can Player B do this.


Player A enters his Main Phase 1 and got priority to begin a chain. Player B want to activate a set card but Player A still got Priority so Player B need to ask to Player A do you want to use priority to begin a chain. When Player A says no then Player B got priority to begin a chain. But when Player B ask it to Player A then Player A thinks 'uhm... why he is asking that he wants to do something' and says I want to use priority to begin a chain but first I want to do this I Tribute Summons Jinzo .

Is this possible, if it's then you sometimes give some information to your opponent what can effect the duel doesn't it ?

 

[John Danker]

I think I'm lost in this part of your scenario and what you're trying to relate to Dan's post. Perhaps you could segement it out and relate it more clearly. Too much potential for misunderstanding here.

 

[Duelmaster]

I think I'm lost in this part of your scenario and what you're trying to relate to Dan's post. Perhaps you could segement it out and relate it more clearly. Too much potential for misunderstanding here.

Forget that part above only about this


Sorry, maybe I don't organise it good I ask a question about one thing and then about something completly different.

Again, turn player doesn't have priority to summon, they have priority to begin a chain. They can choose to summon and haven't yet passed priority.

When may Player B start a chain, when they get Priority I understand that but can Player B do this.


Player A enters his Main Phase 1 and got priority to begin a chain. Player B want to activate a set card but Player A still got Priority so Player B need to ask to Player A do you want to use priority to begin a chain. When Player A says no then Player B got priority to begin a chain. But when Player B ask it to Player A then Player A thinks 'uhm... why he is asking that he wants to do something' and says I want to use priority to begin a chain but first I want to do this I Tribute Summons Jinzo .

Is this possible ?



So the question is Player B need to ask Player A (the Turn Player) if he wants to use priority to begin a chain, and if he answers no then Player B got priority to start a can. But Player A may answer with later and will still retain priority to begin a chain later after he Tribute Summonsed his Jinzo. And don't give Player B the chance to start a chain.

 

[John Danker]

Now I understand what you're getting at.
Turn player retains priority in main phase 1 or main phase 2 until either...

A. He begins a chain.
B. He summons a monster (assuming that the summon of that monster doesn't automatically begin a chain due to another card already on the field) and elects not to begin a chain at that time. In this scenario the non-turn player may then respond to the summon of the monster.

Does that help clear it up for you?

 

[Jason_C]

Now I understand what you're getting at.
Turn player retains priority in main phase 1 or main phase 2 until either...

A. He begins a chain.
B. He summons a monster (assuming that the summon of that monster doesn't automatically begin a chain due to another card already on the field) and elects not to begin a chain at that time. In this scenario the non-turn player may then respond to the summon of the monster.

Does that help clear it up for you?

Er... Turn Player has priority at the beginning of any phase. He retains this priority until something occurs to take it away from him. There are only two things which can cause a player to lose priority:

1. Activating an effect.
2. Passing priority.

Where does summoning come in?

 

[John Danker]

It's not where summoning comes in...it's where the response to the summon comes in. If you summon a monster and decide after the summon of that monster not to begin a chain with a spell speed 2 or higher effect or an ignition effect then you're passing priority to your opponent to respond to the summon of a monster.

In other words, I can't special summon, then without my opponent having a chance to respond to that summon, normal summon another monster.

 

[anthonyj]

Summoning a monster is an action that can be responded to. Though it doesn't use up priority it does require that you either begin a chain or pass priority so that the opponent can respond to the summon.

 

[Jason_C]

Oh... So then, that falls under the category of passing priority... Okey-dokey...

 

[slither]

It's not where summoning comes in...it's where the response to the summon comes in. If you summon a monster and decide after the summon of that monster not to begin a chain with a spell speed 2 or higher effect or an ignition effect then you're passing priority to your opponent to respond to the summon of a monster.

In other words, I can't special summon, then without my opponent having a chance to respond to that summon, normal summon another monster.

Now there's something that got me all confuzzled up :drool_jed, how is it possible for the turn player to lose priority when a chain has fully resolved then?

From my understanding turn player retains priority until he/she decides NOT to begin a new chain, so after a chain has resolved we begin an "empty chain", meaning turn player has priotiy still to begin a new chain in response to the previous chain resolving.

Or is there something im still missing here???

 

[Jason_C]

Now there's something that got me all confuzzled up :drool_jed, how is it possible for the turn player to lose priority when a chain has fully resolved then?

From my understanding turn player retains priority until he/she decides NOT to begin a new chain, so after a chain has resolved we begin an "empty chain", meaning turn player has priotiy still to begin a new chain in response to the previous chain resolving.

Or is there something im still missing here???

You don't get to run away with a duel even with priority being factored in. The simple fact is that your opponent WILL get a chance to respond to everything you do, even if you get first crack at it. So if special summon a monster, you retain priority after a summon. BUT, if you pass that priority or activate an effect, priority Shifts to the opponent to respond. You don't get to normal summon again until there has been a response window.

And yes, before anyone says it, I do indeed realize that there are a few exceptions where one can circumvent mechanics and completely cheat the opponent out of a chance to respond to a summon. But then, I emphasize a FEW exceptions.

 

[John Danker]

Now there's something that got me all confuzzled up :drool_jed, how is it possible for the turn player to lose priority when a chain has fully resolved then?

From my understanding turn player retains priority until he/she decides NOT to begin a new chain, so after a chain has resolved we begin an "empty chain", meaning turn player has priotiy still to begin a new chain in response to the previous chain resolving.

Or is there something im still missing here???

It's possible because you're assuming that turn player regains priority at the end of any chain, which, according to Dan isn't the case. novastar obviously disagrees here and his opinion is commonly accepted at this point, however, you'll find that those judges who have worked closely with those at UDE who hand down the rules from Konami (Gary, Brent, John Lacey, Julia, Jason, myself, etc.) will rule otherwise by virtue of what we've been instructed.

 

[Jason_C]

It's possible because you're assuming that turn player regains priority at the end of any chain, which, according to Dan isn't the case. novastar obviously disagrees here and his opinion is commonly accepted at this point, however, you'll find that those judges who have worked closely with those at UDE who hand down the rules from Konami (Gary, Brent, John Lacey, Julia, Jason, myself, etc.) will rule otherwise by virtue of what we've been instructed.

Turn Player always has and always will retain priority at the end of a chain. That doesn't mean it won't later be passed back to the opponent.

 

[anthonyj]

Response chain is what you are missing. Once a chain begun by the Turn Player has finished resolving then it is the Non-Turn Player who has Priority to begin a Response chain.

 

[Jason_C]

<way off topic>

How did that just happen? I posted a message in reply to Mr. Danker's message, and then Anthony butted in somehow, but his post came AFTER mine?!?!?!

</way off topic>