Been thinking about complex chains, Standby Phase, and End Phase lately...

T

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
Lately I've been thinking of generating some scenarios that have complex chain blocks in the Standby Phase and End Phase.

So far all I've come up with is one interesting complex chain block in the End Phase.

Player A: 2300 Life Points
Player B: 200 Life Points

Player Fields:
Player A has a face up Ectoplasmer and Two-Man Cell Battle with a face up Dark Necrofear and Twin-Headed Behemoth in attack position. Player A has Gemini Elf in hand.

Player B has a face up Cyber Dragon, Treeborn Frog, and Spirit Reaper in defense position with a face down Mirror Force.

Actual Scenario:
Player A attacks Cyber Dragon with Dark Necrofear. Player B responds with Mirror Force. All of Player A's face up attack positioned monsters are destroyed. Player A moves to his End Phase. Dark Necrofear, Twin-Headed Behemoth, and Two-Man Cell Battle activate all at the same time.

Player A decides to make the Chain Link order this.

Link 1: Dark Necrofear
Link 2: Twin-Headed Behemoth
Link 3: Two-Man Cell Battle

Two-Man Cell Battle resolves and Special Summons Gemini Elf. When Dark Necrofear activates and resolves, it targets Spirit Reaper. At this point Spirit Reaper and Ectoplasmer activate at the same time. Player A controls both effects. Player A decides to resolve the chain block in this order.

Link 1: Spirit Reaper
Link 2: Ectoplasmer

Since both effects are continuous, they aren't being chained to one another. Player A is the Turn Player and can decide which effect is placed on the Chain Block first.

Question:
Did I resolve this scenario correctly or am I missing something?
 
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John Danker said:
I see you're doing your homework TK...and when I suggested you study up on these topics it seems you took it to heart. Pay attention to what anthonyj has posted about choosing in what order to resolve, thats where most people get confuzled in the standby phase end end phase.
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Most definitely! This is something I need to brush up on myself! Much props to ya TK! Never stop learning!
 
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Tkwiget said:
Other than my field mistake, you just confused me completely. @_@
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I intentionally answered the way I did so you would have to go back and 'figure out' the areas I was referring to...lol. I'm soooo mean aren't I?....lol.
 
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skey23 said:
I intentionally answered the way I did so you would have to go back and 'figure out' the areas I was referring to...lol. I'm soooo mean aren't I?....lol.
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I triple checked it. I did screw up when I typed it up. Don't be surprised though, coming up with the scenario was a task all by itself. XD I'm not at all shocked to find that I made an error when typing it up.

I simply took out the Last Will part.

Note: I even had to bust out pen and paper to check the error you found. XD

Now look at the scenario. I'm wondering if I'm resolving these situations correctly. It seems to have a lot to do with priority in the Standby Phase and End Phase from what I've seen so far. Which doesn't help if the cards themselves are annoyingly vague in what they do for their card text. Which compounds the problem of understanding exactly what's going on in each situation.

You should notice how I'm not arguing with you guys about things in this thread where I'm in the wrong. A good example of that is the very first situation I typed up in the openning post.

Dillie-O, we should try and bounce ideas off one another on AIM some time. Tackle this together so we don't go bald from pulling all our hair out. XD
 
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Lol...you're gonna hate me...lol.

Player B must Special Summon "Strike Ninja" with "Return from the Different Dimension" because he's removed from play and you have to Special Summon as many as possible...lol.

Also, Player A probably doesn't want to resolve "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" 1st since there aren't anymore monster slots available. I'm sure they don't want their "Vampire Lord" to be destroyed for no reason...lol.

[edit]Also..Player B never resolved "Return from the Different Dimension"s effect to put all the monsters back into the RFP area. How else would they be able to resolve the effect of "D.D. Survivor"?..lol.

[edit]Also, just a curious question. Why not resolve all 3 "The Wicked Worm Beasts" 1st? That way you keep monsters in your hand, unless you specifically wanted them in the Graveyard. "Pot of Avarice" maybe?
 
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I'd like a Big Mac, large fries, a chocolate shake, and...ummm...an apple pie please? XD

The only thing I've learned so far is how horrible I'm in drawing up scenarios that are 100% legal. I suppose what I'm confused on is how the effects in the Standby Phase and End Phase resolve when both players control multiple effects.

Maybe this scenario is a little more...legal??

Player A has Last Will and Change of Heart face down.

Player B has a face up attack position Karate Man and a face down Morphing Jar with four dragons in hand with Super Rejuvenation and Rush Recklessly face down.

It's Player A's turn.

Player A activates Change of Heart and targets Karate Man. Player A activates Karate Man's effect and Player B chains with Rush Recklessly and targets Karate Man. Player A now activates Last Will. Player A attacks Player B's face down Morphing Jar with Karate Man. Player B responds with activating Super Rejuvenation. Karate Man and Morphing Jar move into the Damage Step after that. Morphing Jar activates and resolves. Both players discard their hands and draw five cards. Morphing Jar is now considered to be destroyed and goes to the Graveyard.

Player A moves to his End Phase.

Player A controls the following effects: Last Will, Change of Heart, and Karate Man.

Player B controls the following effects: Rush Recklessly and Super Rejuvenation.



I've triple checked the legality of this scenario. I can't find any errors in it. So this is how I think this scenario could legally resolve. @_@

Player A resolves Karate Man's effect. Karate Man is destroyed via its own effect. Last Will then immediately resolves after this and Special Summons Sangan in attack position. Change of Heart's effect dissappears since Karate Man is no longer being affected by it. Player A passes to Player B. Player B can't resolve Rush Recklessly because it no longer is affecting anything. So Player B resolves Super Rejuvenation and draws four cards (one for each dragon discarded by Morphing Jar). Player B passes to Player A. Player A ends his turn.

What I'm mostly confused on is how multiple card effects that are activated earlier in the turn resolve their conditions or lingering effects later in the turn. This seems to be how Priority works in a way, but I don't remember if it was ever deeply explained to me in detail.

Btw, I can't seem to come up with any complex chain blocks that I can't break a part. I'm pretty strong in that area, I think. @_@

EDIT: Fixed the stupid error....
 
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You didn't have to point out another error in one of my scenarios. It just makes me feel a lot worse that I can't come up with a legal scenario. =/

I just need to clear my head on this for right now.
 
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Well, see that's the whole point of looking at a complex scenario. Maybe the exact same thing wouldn't come up in tournament, but complex situations like it still come up. Imagine if you racked your brain and you and three other judges conference for several minutes on a ruling only to realize later that the whole situation wasn't legal to begin with? I say keep coming up with complex scenarios to sharpen your ability to spot those "little details". It could save you headaches in the long run.
 
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Remember that it is optional for the Turn Player to choose and resolve one of his available effect or he may pass, the non-turn player may then choose to resolve one of his own or pass back at which point the Turn Player would have to choose one of his effects to resolve. Rinse and repeat for each available effect.
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A little detail: is it really one effect at a time ? I thought Turn Player could choose to resolve a number of his effects ( not necessarily only one ) before passing, and the same for the non-turn player. Then, when both players have already passed once , turn player would have to resolve all of his remaining effects, after which non-turn would resolve all that were left. Was I wrong ?

Thanks

Carlos
 
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I believe that's only the case when a SEGOC (Simultaneous Effects Going On a Chain) chain occurs. In this case, it's not a bunch of chained effects, but a bunch of lingering/Continuous Effects from previously activated cards.
 
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Forgive me for not having read the thread all the way through and addressing each scenario....

but in many of those cases isn't that what you're looking at...SEGOC? If an effect activates in the standby / end phase it triggers immediately upon entering that phase, granted, you may resolve them "during your end phase" but they trigger upon entering that phase so it IS SEGOC correct?....again, I didn't read through the who thread so forgive me if I'm jumping the gun.
 
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I don't think this is a SEGOC case. SEGOC are effects that activate and must be dealt with at the same time, so they are placed on a single chain. The kind of lingering effects that are resolved in the Standby Phase or End Phase even allows for someone to choose an effect to resolve, then pass, then later resolve the remaining, meaning they were definitely NOT placed on the same chain.

However, my doubt is yet unanswered . Suppose I am the turn player. When my End Phase starts, I have four effects to resolve ( doesn't really matter what they are, suppose they don't interfere with one another ). May I choose to resolve two of them, then pass priority to my opponent, then when priority comes back to me, resolve the remaning effects ? Or are my choices somewhat limited in terms of which/how many effects I can choose to resolve before passing ?

Thanks

Carlos
 
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Two things...

1. Yes, it is one at a time. You would only get multiples if the opponent passes on their opportunity to resolve their effect.

2. John, I would agree with SEGOC if, and only if, the effects of the cards stated 'immediatlely upon entering' or something that set a specific 'time stamp'. As they are written now, 'during the End/Standby Phase' suggests no exact time stamp other than sometime during the Phase.
 
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As I understand lingering effects, they never form a chain. Only card activation forms a chain. Perhaps in rare cases, the effects of face-up Continuous Effects. But I'm fairly certain that lingering effects never form SEGOCs.
 
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