Been thinking about complex chains, Standby Phase, and End Phase lately...

T

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
Lately I've been thinking of generating some scenarios that have complex chain blocks in the Standby Phase and End Phase.

So far all I've come up with is one interesting complex chain block in the End Phase.

Player A: 2300 Life Points
Player B: 200 Life Points

Player Fields:
Player A has a face up Ectoplasmer and Two-Man Cell Battle with a face up Dark Necrofear and Twin-Headed Behemoth in attack position. Player A has Gemini Elf in hand.

Player B has a face up Cyber Dragon, Treeborn Frog, and Spirit Reaper in defense position with a face down Mirror Force.

Actual Scenario:
Player A attacks Cyber Dragon with Dark Necrofear. Player B responds with Mirror Force. All of Player A's face up attack positioned monsters are destroyed. Player A moves to his End Phase. Dark Necrofear, Twin-Headed Behemoth, and Two-Man Cell Battle activate all at the same time.

Player A decides to make the Chain Link order this.

Link 1: Dark Necrofear
Link 2: Twin-Headed Behemoth
Link 3: Two-Man Cell Battle

Two-Man Cell Battle resolves and Special Summons Gemini Elf. When Dark Necrofear activates and resolves, it targets Spirit Reaper. At this point Spirit Reaper and Ectoplasmer activate at the same time. Player A controls both effects. Player A decides to resolve the chain block in this order.

Link 1: Spirit Reaper
Link 2: Ectoplasmer

Since both effects are continuous, they aren't being chained to one another. Player A is the Turn Player and can decide which effect is placed on the Chain Block first.

Question:
Did I resolve this scenario correctly or am I missing something?
 
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Just getting a re-cap on how effects that must activate or resolve in a particular Game Phase resolves. This is based off my understanding of what Skey23, Anothonyj, Masterwoo0, and Novastar have said from their expert knowledge of these game mechanics. None of them are listed in any particular order of importance as each of them have contributed an equal share to the discussion and promotion of intelligent exchange of knowledge. I also will give thanks to everyone else that has contributed to the discussion thus far, even if you understand the material or not.


To my understanding the following text-based chart explains how Priority of outstanding effects in Game Phases that must resolve in that particular Game Phase works. Keep in mind that this chart is designed to be flexible and mold into any particular scenario that may or may not come up.

@ = Resolving an effect
X = Passing of Priority
<- or -> = Who's passing Priority to who.

Player A is on the left and Player B is on the right.

**PA | PB
1) @ -> @
2) X <- @
3) X -> @
4) @ <- X
5) X -> @
6) @ <- X
7) @ -> @
8) X <- X
9) @ -> X
10) X <- @
11) X -> X
12) X <- @
13) @ -> X
14) @ <- @
15) X -> @
16) X <- X
17) @ -> X
18) X <- @
19) @ -> X
20) X <- X

1) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

2) Player A passes Priority to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

3) Player A passes Priority to Player B. Player B resolve an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

4) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

5) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B must resolve an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

6) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B passes Priority to Player A.

7) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

8) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

9) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

10) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B must resolve an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

11) Player A passes Priority to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

12) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B must resolve an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

13) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

14) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

15) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

16) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

17) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

18) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

19) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B passes Priority back to Player A.

20) Player A passes Priority back to Player B. Player B must resolve an effect. Priority is auto-passed to Player A.

etc..etc..

I'm also in dire need of some people to work together in creating complex scenarios in the Standby Phase, Battle Phase, and End Phase. The more complex it is the better.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Just getting a re-cap on how effects that must activate or resolve in a particular Game Phase resolves. This is based off my understanding of what Skey23, Anothonyj, Masterwoo0, and Novastar have said from their expert knowledge of these game mechanics. None of them are listed in any particular order of importance as each of them have contributed an equal share to the discussion and promotion of intelligent exchange of knowledge. I also will give thanks to everyone else that has contributed to the discussion thus far, even if you understand the material or not.


To my understanding the following text-based chart explains how Priority of outstanding effects in Game Phases that must resolve in that particular Game Phase works. Keep in mind that this chart is designed to be flexible and mold into any particular scenario that may or may not come up.

@ = Resolving an effect
X = Passing of Priority
<- or -> = Who's passing Priority to who.

Player A is on the left and Player B is on the right.

**PA | PB
1) @ -> @
2) X <- @
3) X -> @
4) @ <- X
etc..etc...

1) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

2) Player A passes Priority to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

3) Player A passes Priority to Player B. Player B resolve an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A.

etc..etc..

I'm also in dire need of some people to work together in creating complex scenarios in the Standby Phase, Battle Phase, and End Phase. The more complex it is the better.
Click to expand...
Without going into a lot of detail, your chart is not accurate, nor necessary.

The main thing to remember is EFFECTS THAT ACTIVATE DURING A PHASE ARE RESOLVED WITH PRIORITY! (not SEGOC)

The Turn Player always has priority to activate and resolve a PHASE EFFECT he/she controls first. However, the TP may pass priority to Non-Turn Player. NTP may then activate and resolve a PHASE EFFECT he/she controls or pass priority back to the TP. Once priority has been passed by the TP and the NTP in succession, the TP IS NOW OBLIGATED TO RESOLVE AN EFFECT! The TP may not continue to pass priority a second consecutive time.

Once an effect is activated, it can be chained to. If the TP activates an effect, the NTP has priority to chain first. If the NTP activates an effect, the TP has priority to chain first. After the chain is resolved, the cycle for remaining PHASE EFFECTS begins again with the TP having priority first if he/she still has a PHASE EFFECT to resolve. If both players have PHASE EFFECTS to resolve, the NTP IS NEVER FORCED TO ACTIVATE AND RESOLVE AN EFFECT FIRST! The NTP can pass priority back, which will force the TP to activate an effect.

In your item 1) Player A resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player B. Player B resolves an effect. Priority auto-passes to Player A. Player A can only activate an effect and then priority passes to Player B to chain if he/she chooses. If Player A indeed activates and resolves an effect because Player B did not chain, then the turn Player A has priority again to activate and resolve remaining phase effects. Priority does NOT auto-pass to NT Player B.

doc
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Doesnt that fall under the "You Snooze, You Lose" Theory, whereas, if you choose not to respond to the card played, you lose your Priority to do so....
Click to expand...
Hmmm, there are times I wished I could employ the "snooze, you lose" theory but alas not.

Even when the TP activates an effect and the NTP does not immediately chain, priority returns to the TP to allow him/her to chain to their own effect. At this point, if the TP chooses to not chain and since both players have passed priority, the chain resolves even if it is a single link. So the sequence actually ends when the TP has priority. If there are more Phase effects to resolve, the TP has priority again.

Same deal if TP passes priority and NTP wants to activate an effect first! It doesn't matter if the TP chains or doesn't chain to the effect; when this chain ends and if the TP still has a Phase effect to resolve, he will have priority.


Remember this "real life" situation?
TP draws a card and enters Standby Phase. NTP has Jowgen face-up on the Field and activates Wall of Revealing Light. [EDIT] TP then chains Enemy Controller to tribute his monster to take control of Jowgen. NTP chains Last Turn. No monster is special summoned due to Jowgen. No Last Turn Battle is conducted since there is no defending monster. During TP's normal Battle Phase, he is only able to inflict 200 LP damage; not enough to win the game. End Phase comes. TP has Enemy Controller's Phase effect to resolve; NTP has Last Turn effect to resolve.

Of course TP wants NTP to resolve his Last Turn effect first, so he passes priority. But alas, NTP knows the rules and passes priority back to TP. Now TP has to resolve Enemy Controller and return Jowgen back to NTP. Now NTP resolves Last Turn and wins the game!

doc
 
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ygo doc said:
Remember this "real life" situation?
TP draws a card and enters Standby Phase. NTP has Jowgen face-up on the Field and activates Wall of Revealing Light and chains Last Turn. TP chains Enemy Controller to tribute his monster and take control of Jowgen. No monster is special summoned due to Jowgen. No Last Turn Battle is conducted since there is no defending monster. During TP's normal Battle Phase, he is only able to inflict 200 LP damage; not enough to win the game. End Phase comes. TP has Enemy Controller's Phase effect to resolve; NTP has Last Turn effect to resolve.

Of course TP wants NTP to resolve his Last Turn effect first, so he passes priority. But alas, NTP knows the rules and passes priority back to TP. Now TP has to resolve Enemy Controller and return Jowgen back to NTP. Now NTP resolves Last Turn and wins the game!

doc
Click to expand...
Now, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but that whole scenario is incorrect. There is no way that the TP was able to keep "Jowgen" on their side of the field. "Last Turn" should have sent it to the Graveyard because it was on the TPs side of the field when "Last Turn" resolved.
 
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skey23 said:
Now, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but that whole scenario is incorrect. There is no way that the TP was able to keep "Jowgen" on their side of the field. "Last Turn" should have sent it to the Graveyard because it was on the TPs side of the field when "Last Turn" resolved.
Click to expand...
You are correct, Skey. The monster destruction occurs at resolution, but so does the monster selection. If Jowgen was not on Last Turn-player's side of the field, he could not be selected and would be demolished.

Will edit in one moment with better answer...

:edit Here it is.
 
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skey23 said:
Now, somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but that whole scenario is incorrect. There is no way that the TP was able to keep "Jowgen" on their side of the field. "Last Turn" should have sent it to the Graveyard because it was on the TPs side of the field when "Last Turn" resolved.
Click to expand...
Simon, you're CORRECT!

Let me fix the chain from where I originally posted.

The chain should have been:
1. Wall of Revealing Light
2. Enemy Controller
3. Last Turn

Thanks for pointing that out!

doc
 
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So your saying that Priority doesn't auto-pass from player to player when resolving outstanding effects in the Standby and End Phases? That's what my whole chart is about. I used the word "activate" in the first paragraph of that post, which was a mistake, and it might have made everything else look wrong.

That information is directly based off the one-on-one post exchanges I had with Simon (Skey23) earlier in this thread; which is roughly around Post #65 I think.

Further more he said that my chart is accurate and correct. Basing off his word on this I established the fact with myself that it could be an excellent resource tool in making legal complex scenarios in in a single turn. After he helped me modify my chart to look accurately and function correctly, I posted a complex scenario that involved multiple outstanding effects resolving in the Standby Phase and End Phase of one person's turn. The complex scenario ended up being a legal complex scenario. My chart helped push for an easier time in getting cards that create some kind of lingering status in a game phase that don't activate but need to resolve.

Take note that I really don't mind people posting up complex scenarios in the Standby Phase and/or End Phase. I'm trying to understand this stuff a lot more so I can be a more valuable team member to whoever I'm working with at events.
 
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Well....guesss what.....I was wrong....lol. Sue me! When it comes to Standby or End Phase issues, the Turn Player will always have Priority after the resolution of an effect. What Doc stated is correct.
 
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@_@ Well.....I guess I wasted all that time to drill incorrect information into my head for the pain and agony of taking twice as long to drill the correct information in place of it.

You guys care to help me out with this? The community could benefit greatly from such a discussion.
 
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Tkwiget, you're correct in that priority passes back and forth like it does for normal chaining. Remember for Phase effects, that after each chain resolves the Turn Player has priority again and is forced to activate a Phase effect if both players pass in succession. I really think it is as simple as that.

I would love to share more specific information with you and all duelists but some of this info on priority comes from the L3 Judge site and we are not at liberty to reveal it in detail. Continue to ask your questions and study your rulings. It appears you could pass the L3 test and gain access to the site.

doc
 
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ygo doc said:
Tkwiget, you're correct in that priority passes back and forth like it does for normal chaining. Remember for Phase effects, that after each chain resolves the Turn Player has priority again and is forced to activate a Phase effect if both players pass in succession. I really think it is as simple as that.

I would love to share more specific information with you and all duelists but some of this info on priority comes from the L3 Judge site and we are not at liberty to reveal it in detail. Continue to ask your questions and study your rulings. It appears you could pass the L3 test and gain access to the site.

doc
Click to expand...
The thing is I'm not trying to work on understanding who has priority after chains. What I'm talking about are effects/conditions leftover at a Game Phase that a card has made that needs to resolve.

Here are some examples:
Return from the Different Dimension
Lightforce Sword
Brain Control
Interdimensional Matter Transporter
Dimensionalhole
Strike Ninja
Germ Infection

Their leftover effects/conditions that are made after their effect activation resolves is what I'm getting at in this thread. Not multiple cards/effects activating.

John has told me enough times that the detailed information on this is strictly off limits to the public. If there's some way I can learn this information in a much more broad and generalized way, I'm up to the challenge.
 
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