Book of Life

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Madma

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The old Netrep file 6.0 says:

If one of the monsters targeted by "Book of Life" is removed from the Graveyard before the resolution of "Book of Life", the remaining monster will still be affected as normal.

So, if I activate Book of Life and I decide to remove Jinzo from the opponent's graveyard, and he chains Call of the Haunted to reborn his Jinzo, I still get my special summon, right?

I know this is the correct ruling, but this file is very old (and wrong about many cards) and a boy doesn't believe me, so I want you to clarify the situation.
 
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Madma said:
So, if I activate Book of Life and I decide to remove Jinzo from the opponent's graveyard, and he chains Call of the Haunted to reborn his Jinzo, I still get my special summon, right?
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The timimg for the activation was correct, so you would still be allowed to return a Zombie to the field.
 
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Ok, another little question: why does the effect of Creature Swap disappear instead, if the only monster of one of the players is destroyed before the resolution? Isn't the same situation (correct timing of activation)?

Is the situation different because Creature Swap doesn't target?
 
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Madma said:
Ok, another little question: why does the effect of Creature Swap disappear instead, if the only monster of one of the players is destroyed before the resolution? Isn't the same situation (correct timing of activation)?

Is the situation different because Creature Swap doesn't target?
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Creature Swap has an effect of switchng 2 monsters around. You can't Switch, if theirs nothing to switch with.


Book of Life has an effect of Summoning a Zombie monster from the graveyard, and it has an effect of removing a monster from play. They are independent of each other.
 
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Madma said:
Ok, another little question: why does the effect of Creature Swap disappear instead, if the only monster of one of the players is destroyed before the resolution? Isn't the same situation (correct timing of activation)?

Is the situation different because Creature Swap doesn't target?
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Creature Swap's effect occurs at "resolution" of the cards activation. So if a monster is destroyed or returned to hand before Creature Swap fully resolves, the effect disappears.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Book of Life has an effect of Summoning a Zombie monster from the graveyard, and it has an effect of removing a monster from play. They are independent of each other.
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I'm sooo glad you made that statement. I've been meaning to ask this about "Book of Life".

Are the two 'events' simultaneous? Or do you Summon 1st, then remove?

I ask because there was/is an old ruling that states you can "Bottomless Trap Hole" the summoned monster. This would only be possible if both events of "Book of Life" were considered to occur simultaneously. If they don't, then the timing would be missed since you are still resolving "Book of Life" when you are removing the monster from play.

Thanks.
 
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skey23 said:
Are the two 'events' simultaneous? Or do you Summon 1st, then remove?

I ask because there was/is an old ruling that states you can "Bottomless Trap Hole" the summoned monster. This would only be possible if both events of "Book of Life" were considered to occur simultaneously.
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In the event that they are considered simultaneous, would cards requiring a special summon occur before they can be activated NOT be activated because a special summon did not occur exclusively (the card text says "when a monster is special summoned", not "when a monster is special summoned and a monster is removed from play"--being considered two separate conditions)?
 
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The current Netrep ruling is this for Bottomless Trap Hole:

This card can only be activated when the last thing that resolved in the Duel was the opponent Normal/Flip/Special Summoning a monster(s). It cannot be activated at any other time.
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I guess this would then mean that you couldn't Bottomless a Book of Life'd monster since the last thing to happen is the monster being removed from your opponent's graveyard.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though because the Book of Life ruling has nothing on there about this situation.
 
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I know what the 'current' rulings are...lol.

But, I KNOW I read either in an older Netrep PDF or on the Judge's List somewhere that you could activate "Bottomless Trap Hole" in response to the monster being summoned, but I CAN'T find it again for the life of me!

I have politely asked Mr. Steve 'Kenjiblade' to enlighten us and/or smack me down like the idiot I am...lol...;), since he's kindly responding to posts here and there.
 
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The removal and the Special Summon of the designated Zombie are simultaneous, at the same time. It will not influence the timing of Bottomless Trap Hole.


When Book of Life resolves:

1. You remove the designated card from play
2. You Special Summon the designated Zombie from the graveyard

or

1. You Special Summon the designated Zombie from the gravyeard
2. You remove the designated card from play


Doesn't matter which order it goes in, this is still a simultaneous event.
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
Doesn't matter which order it goes in, this is still a simultaneous event.
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So what your saying there is no such thing as a single last event to occur when events simultaneously resolve, right?

So if a card existed that stated:

Zombie's Retribution
Normal Trap:
When your opponent removes card(s) in your graveyard from play, remove up to twice as many cards from your opponent's graveyard from play.

Zombie's Retribution can be activated in response to Book of Life because one of the simultaneous events in the last card to resolve was removing a monster from play, right?
 
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dgutierr said:
So what your saying there is no such thing as a single last event to occur when events simultaneously resolve, right?
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Exactly. If you were to activate Painful Choice, and 1 of your choices were Archfiend of Gilfer that was sent to the graveyard, this will not influence it's timing, even if other cards were sent along with it.

Lets take another example much like Cyber Jar.

Cyber Jar's effect involves destruction of monsters during the beginning part of effect as it follows along, then both Players pick up and Special Summon as mnay Level 4 monsters that were picked up, and the rest are placed in the hand. And if your opponent were to Special Summon 3 Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer in attack mode, and you Special Summon from the effect as well...

Has Bottomless Trap Hole missed it's timing? No, it hasn't. Not to mention, you have also Special Summon from the effect of your opponent's Cyber Jar...
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
Exactly. If you were to activate Painful Choice, and 1 of your choices were Archfiend of Gilfer that was sent to the graveyard, this will not influence it's timing, even if other cards were sent along with it.

Lets take another example much like Cyber Jar.

Cyber Jar's effect involves destruction of monsters during the beginning part of effect as it follows along, then both Players pick up and Special Summon as mnay Level 4 monsters that were picked up, and the rest are placed in the hand. And if your opponent were to Special Summon 3 Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer in attack mode, and you Special Summon from the effect as well...

Has Bottomless Trap Hole missed it's timing? No, it hasn't. Not to mention, you have also Special Summon from the effect of your opponent's Cyber Jar...
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There is a specific order of summoning and setting in this example. The turn player will summon or set first and then the opponent. Even though there is a specific order, I believe it is still simultaneous and Bottomless Traphole will not miss its timing.
 
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Big Oldprankster said:
There is a specific order of summoning and setting in this example. The turn player will summon or set first and then the opponent. Even though there is a specific order, I believe it is still simultaneous and Bottomless Traphole will not miss its timing.
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This is what I tried to point out, but thank you on being more specific.

And as you pointed out, you've made a point.

Even though the Turn Player is to set positions first, and the opponent is to do so afterwards, this is still a simultaneous event.

Bottomless Trap Hole won't miss it's timing. Hope that answers your question dgutierr
 
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After reviewing this, I believe the easiest way to find how a card actiavtes and resolves is to simply read it.

This should prove you remove monsters before the Special Summon performed by Book of Life.


Appropriate
You can activate this card when your opponent draws a card outside of his/her Draw Phase. After that, each time your opponent draws cards outside of his/her Draw Phase, you draw 2 cards.

Rulings:
[Re: Dragged Down into the Grave] You can activate "Appropriate" in response to "Dragged Down" into the Grave because drawing was the last thing performed.

[Re: Graceful Charity] Your opponent cannot activate "Appropriate" after you activate "Graceful Charity" since the last effect that resolves with "Graceful Charity" is discarding, not drawing, and your opponent misses the timing. But if your opponent already has an active "Appropriate" face-up on the field, he/she can draw 2 cards after you activate "Graceful Charity".

[Re: Reload] Your opponent can activate "Appropriate" in response to your drawing with "Reload"'s effect.
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
After reviewing this, I believe the easiest way to find how a card actiavtes and resolves is to simply read it.

This should prove you remove monsters before the Special Summon performed by Book of Life.
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"Special Summon 1 Zombie-Type monster from your Graveyard to the field and remove 1 monster in your opponent's Graveyard from play."

Exactly HOW does this prove you remove the monster 1st, then Special Summon. If you follow the order of the text, you Special Summon, THEN remove the monster from play.


And I'm sorry, but I also don't understand what the other links and rulings have to do with what you are trying to say about 'reading the card text'.
 
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skey23 said:
"Special Summon 1 Zombie-Type monster from your Graveyard to the field and remove 1 monster in your opponent's Graveyard from play."

Exactly HOW does this prove you remove the monster 1st, then Special Summon. If you follow the order of the text, you Special Summon, THEN remove the monster from play.


And I'm sorry, but I also don't understand what the other links and rulings have to do with what you are trying to say about 'reading the card text'.
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I was trying to differ from other cards effects that are simultaneous events. Oh, and my bad, that is a typing error. I forgot to mention afterwards even if I am wrong, this is still a simultaneous event.

To your question...

Blowback Dragon
Toss a coin 3 times. If at least 2 of the results are Heads, select 1 card on your opponent's side of the field and destroy it. This effect can only be used once per turn during your Main Phase.

You do not perform the toin coss until this effect has resolved, because the effect of Blowback Dragon targets, so you choose the target, then when this effect resolves, you perform the coin toss.

And when I said "reading the card text" I didn't assume read and perform the effect in order it is printed on the card, so don't assume that. This is what my Blowback Dragon's example is about.
 
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