Call of the Haunted vs. Jinzo/Royal Decree (Not what you're thinking)

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densetsu_x

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This question has evolved out of a similar scenario and has prompted some really nasty debates and some far out answers (including one supposedly "official" one that I cannot agree with just because it is so "out there" (yeah I know, I'm debating a BKSS sort of answer but I just cannot see it being right).

Anyway, since our debates and discussions here tend to be spirited, but respectful, I'm going to turn this over to you folk and get your feedback before I jump in with the answers I received.

I activate Call of the Haunted to Special Summon Summoned Skull to the field. I then tribute my Spirit Reaper to summon Jinzo to the field. I finish up my turn. My opponent now summons Exiled Force and tributes it to destroy Jinzo. After that has completed, he activates Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy my Call of the Haunted. What happens to Summoned Skull?

Similar example except say after I use Call of the Haunted to bring back Summoned Skull, my opponent tries to activate Bottomless Trap Hole. I in turn chain Royal Decree. I finish my turn. On my opponent's turn, he summons Breaker the Magical Warrior, gets the counter, and removes it to destroy Royal Decree. He again activates Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy Call of the Haunted. Again, what happens to Summoned Skull? (The answers should be the same).
 
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Summoned Skull stays on the field. When Jinzo was Tribute Summoned, it removed the bond between Summoned Skull and Call of the Haunted, and when Jinzo was destroyed, Call of the Haunted was no longer negated, but it cannot re-target the monster it summoned, since it only initially develops the targeting effect between "Monster and Trap" when activated, and will not do it again if the effect is negated and then removed.

Second scenario, same result.

It is not the same as Summoned Skull being equipped with Premature Burial and negated by Imperial Order. It will stay equipped, but the effect will disappear while negated, and reappear when it becomes active again. Premature Burial being a Equip Card, will have a different Mechanic than that of Call of the Haunted when negated/not negated.
 
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skey23 said:
Without taking sides on this...just yet.

We have this ruling from the Judge List that disagrees with you woo0.

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=10137#10137


This clearly states that if the 'negator' of "Call of the Haunted" leaves the field, then "Call of the Haunted" will once again be 'connected' to the monster.


Debate?
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I dont see where it disagrees with me at all. Cyber Phoenix negates effects that target, but there are two effects to Call of the Haunted, and the second one only targets at Destruction (or removal).

Jinzo and Royal Decree negate the effect of the whole card.

Besides, that would totally throw the fact that monsters removed from play and returned to the field or flipped face-down and back up again, are no longer tied to Call of the Haunted.

If Call of the Haunted can re-target, then it should continue to target a face-down monster as well as when a monster returns to the field from removed from play.
 
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Actually, "Cyber Phoenix" negates all effects of cards that target, not just the targeting effect of that card. Hence why it protects from the non-targeting part of both "Call of the Haunted" and "Premature Burial" when they are destroyed while "Cyber Phoenix" is out.

See same Judge List post...
 
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skey23 said:
Actually, "Cyber Phoenix" negates all effects of cards that target, not just the targeting effect of that card. Hence why it protects from the non-targeting part of both "Call of the Haunted" and "Premature Burial" when they are destroyed while "Cyber Phoenix" is out.

See same Judge List post...
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It can't negate what isnt there. When Call of the Haunted is destroyed, it destroys the selected monster. That effect isnt "active" until Call is removed or destroyed. Only the portion that maintains the state of the monster and the Trap Card is active.

Like I said, if they can say that it re-targets, then it should reconnect with RFG'd monsters returned to the field since the monster was not destroyed, as well as monsters flipped face-down.
 
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I think we've gone down this road before, when we determined that Call does not equip, but remains connected to the card as long as both are face up. It should not matter that Call is being negated because the condition placed on the card (Mutual destruction) remains. Though the trap card's EFFECT is negated the targeting (or connection) remains.

I believe the whole senario is similar to equipping Premature Burial to Horus LV6, or Call to Wildheart the card will still be attached, although its effect for all intents and purposes is negated. Or is that stretchingit?
 
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Something got messed up in there. If Cyber Phoenix negates the effects of any Spell/Trap card that targets a machine type, then it would negate Call of the Haunted fully, which would mean severing the link (following your login on Jinzo/Royal Decree), if CotH was targeting a Machine-Type. But they stated that when Cyber Phoenix leaves the field, the protection is gone and *poof* it can go away if CotH goes away.
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
I think we've gone down this road before, when we determined that Call does not equip, but remains connected to the card as long as both are face up. It should not matter that Call is being negated because the condition placed on the card (Mutual destruction) remains. Though the trap card's EFFECT is negated the targeting (or connection) remains.

I believe the whole senario is similar to equipping Premature Burial to Horus LV6, or Call to Wildheart the card will still be attached, although its effect for all intents and purposes is negated. Or is that stretchingit?
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1) Premature Burial has nothing to do with this at all. As we said, different mechanic altogether.
2) The Horus LV6 / Wildheart scenarios are different since they are the ones immune to the effect, but they don't negate anything in general.

3) The point above about the connection... that's the heart of this debate.
 
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A continuious card doesn't lose its target when negated. Only when the target is removed in some way or flipped face down.

So in both examples I would say Summoned Skull is destroyed. Call of the Haunted never really stopped targeting. It only had its effect of destroying the target monster negated.
 
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blade146 said:
A continuious card doesn't lose its target when negated. Only when the target is removed in some way or flipped face down.

So in both examples I would say Summoned Skull is destroyed. Call of the Haunted never really stopped targeting. It only had its effect of destroying the target monster negated.
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So now you're saying that the effect is not an effect, but a condition which can't be negated??
 
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Well, let me take a look at 2 other continous traps:

1) Wall of Revaling Light
"¢ If "Wall of Revealing Light"'s effect is negated by "Royal Decree" or "Jinzo", and then that card is destroyed, the effect of "Wall of Revealing Light" is re-applied.

Doesn't seem like Wall of Revealing Light forgot the amount of life points that was paid when its effect was negated.

Alright, you want one that targets a monster? Then let's look at #2:

2) Nightmare Wheel
"¢ The effect of "Nightmare Wheel" will be negated by "Royal Decree", so you can attack or change the battle position of the monster. Also, if "Royal Decree" is active, and the monster is removed from the field, "Nightmare Wheel" remains on the field meaninglessly because its text that would destroy it is negated. If "Royal Decree" is later destroyed, the effects of "Nightmare Wheel" are not applied (such as the 500 damage) if there is no monster being targeted by "Nightmare Wheel".

This one is going to be a little trickier, since they're talking about the monster that Nightmare Wheel was targeting being removed from the field. However, their statement that Nightmare Wheel would not have it's effect continue once Royal Decree left the field AND the monster already having left the field would mean that if the monster is still on the field when Royal Decree leaves it, the effect would kick in since it would still have a monster it can target. If it were a flat case, they would say Nightmare Wheel's effect is negated period without any other qualifiers.
 
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Select 1 monster from your Graveyard and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. When this card is removed from the field, destroy the monster. When the monster is destroyed, destroy this card.

There are three effects going on here. The first is the special summon. The second is when Call of the Haunted is destroyed the target monster dies. The third is when the target monster is destroyed then Call of the Haunted is destoryed.

If Call of the Haunted is being negated the last two effects are negated. The monster is still being targeted. If something destroys Call of the Haunted while being negated it still trys to destroy the monster but can't.
 
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Good God...more Call of The Haunted arguments.

If Jinzo/Royal Decree are removed from the field and THEN Call is destroy (In this case connected to Summoned Skull) The Monster Call targeted is also destroyed (Unless it was Jinzo to begin with). Call does not lose it's connection to a monster just because it was negated in a later turn. Nightmare Wheel is a great example of this.
 
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skey23 said:
Can you explain why?

That's the whole point of this thread. Any answers need explanations please. If you can't explain your answer, don't bother posting...
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I could if I could find the old netrep files, im 99% positive there was a ruling that stated that if Call were to be negated by Jinzo and Jinzo is removed from the field, Call would "re-activate" since it's connection to the monster was only severed NOT lost.
 
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slither said:
I could if I could find the old Netrepâ„¢ files, im 99% positive there was a ruling that stated that if Call were to be negated by Jinzo and Jinzo is removed from the field, Call would "re-activate" since it's connection to the monster was only severed NOT lost.
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There is no ruling in the Netrep PDFs that says that. I just checked. Granted, I checked only the 6.0b files and none older than those.
 
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