Card Trooper vs Banisher of Radiance

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Teufelhunden

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If Banisher of Radiance is on the field, can I still use Card Trooper's effect to send cards to the grave to pump it up, even though those cards go out of play?
 
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Entropy said:
No, it's perfectly fine to use "to send" without specifying where to send it.

For example, is the sentence "I sent the present." improper?
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Not in the sense you're using it. You're saying what happened.

The Yu-Gi-Oh! cards, however, have instructions printed on them. Telling someone, "Send the present!" wouldn't really work, unless you already knew where to send it and were just awaiting the instruction to send it there.

"Discard" is defined in the rulebook, I believe, and it is also a proper game term. It also applies only to the hand. If it applied to the Deck as well, that would be great, but as far as I know it doesn't (or at least, there's no precedent for it).
 
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I think part of the struggle lies in the fact that discard, send, and tribute are all three different aspects of the game. While the game does indeed "break its own rules" time and time again, the primary concept is that cards go from the hand to the field, and from the field to the graveyard. I believe most cards are still written with this mechanic in mind, and then you expand from there.

I'm not sure how a better wording would go at this point to distinguish mandatory graveyard effects, but I guess that might be the next suggestion we could bring to help clarify the game more. Or I guess you could always tack on a "This card must go to the graveyard for its effect to activate"
 
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Or, conversely, "Send the card to the Graveyard, but if it doesn't end up there, that's all right, don't worry about it, there there, stop crying, let me give you a hug, shhh, mummy's here, are you feeling better now?"...
 
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While we don't consider the way the games handle situations to be cannon, it is interesting to see how Konami views certain situations (case in point: Last Will. They had their games doing it a lot closer to the way we play it now long before that policy changed).

Well, in WC07, DD Warrior Lady had Dimensional Fissure on the field. I summoned Card Trooper and...

... nothing. The game would not let me activate his effect at all. This would lead one to believe that sending the cards to the Graveyard is the Cost of the effect. (This corralates with other things I've heard through the Grapevine that while nothing "official" has been stated, I was told that the sending was indeed the Cost).

I know I know, I can already head a few people say "I'll wait for the Official Word." Go ahead, I'm waiting too. But in the meantime, that's the way it looks like things are leaning though.
 
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Maruno said:
Or, conversely, "Send the card to the Graveyard, but if it doesn't end up there, that's all right, don't worry about it, there there, stop crying, let me give you a hug, shhh, mummy's here, are you feeling better now?"...
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ROFL!!!!

How about simply: "Sent towards the Graveyard"? that signifies intent without specifying result.

At our Regionals, we said "Cost". Only caught a few disgruntals from those hoping it wasn't. I simply quoth "Simon Says". That ended all arguments. Such power is scary.
 
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<laffin> I like that one..."toward the graveyard"...the way Konami likes to leave themself an "out"....that should work for them quite nicely!

"Send off the field"?

In the general direction of? If you're hick..."There abouts"?
 
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Alternatively, they could just sort out the wording and make clear what is a cost and what is an effect. If it's part of an effect, then it can still be activated even if you can't perform the effect word for word. If it's part of a cost, then you have to exactly perform the cost; else you can't activate it.

"Discard 1 card, target 1 card on the field - Destroy target card."
"Target 1 monster in your Graveyard - Send 1 card in your hand to the Graveyard, Special Summon target monster."

Kind of thing. I mentioned it elsewhere (using The Creator as an example then as well).

This talk you guys are having about words is mostly irrelevant, though, since Konami will never change the wording to make proper simple sense. In fact, this post seems to explain everything. All we need to know is what is the cost, and what is the effect. Unfortunately, due to poor text formats, it's never certain which is which.
 
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Why not simply state for a card effect like Card Trooper..."send the top three cards from your deck to the graveyard and increase the attack of this card by X ATK. If these cards are removed from play by a card effect, negate the increase in the ATK of this card."

Plain and simple...cards in graveyard, increase ATK...not there, too bad...
 
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HorusMaster said:
Why not simply state for a card effect like Card Trooper..."send the top three cards from your deck to the graveyard and increase the attack of this card by X ATK. If these cards are removed from play by a card effect, negate the increase in the ATK of this card."

Plain and simple...cards in graveyard, increase ATK...not there, too bad...
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Or...

"This cards effect can only be activated by placing up to 3 cards from the top of your Deck in your Graveyard. For each card sent to the Graveyard this way, increase the ATK of this card by 500 ATK"
 
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sorry for asking, but im just wondering why if it was a cost trooper's effect wont work, and if it was an effect it would work?

whats the reasoning?

thanks
 
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mikoal said:
sorry for asking, but im just wondering why if it was a cost trooper's effect wont work, and if it was an effect it would work?

whats the reasoning?

thanks
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Let's try to make it as simple as possible. If Card Trooper's effect is a Cost, then compare that to getting a Cashiers Check (Card Trooper) written on a Fictional Bank Account.

In order for you to cash this particular check (activate his effect), you can ONLY take it to the Bank of Mar's (send cards to the Graveyard), but there is no such Bank on Earth (Macro Cosmos is active, so no cards can enter the Graveyard), so you will be stuck with a check you can't cash (since no cards can go to the Graveyard, you cannot activate effect).
 
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mikoal said:
and as for the effect portion of it?
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It it's an effect, it obviously doesn't matter. The effect just tells you to send a card "to" somewhere, even if it can't go there, such as,

Majestic Mech - Ohka
Text
You can Normal Summon this card without Tributing a monster. If you Normal Summon it this way, it is sent to the Graveyard during the End Phase.

The part of Ohka's text where he is sent to the Graveyard is his effect. Since it isnt a Cost, Ohka goes where it "ends up" if it can't go to the Graveyard.
 
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Maruno said:
..."Discard" is defined in the rulebook, I believe, and it is also a proper game term. It also applies only to the hand. If it applied to the Deck as well, that would be great, but as far as I know it doesn't (or at least, there's no precedent for it).
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Beware absolute statements in Yu-Gi-Oh! I wish "discard" only applied to the Hand. Remember if it is Yu-Gi-Oh! that means terms will be inconsistent and cards are allowed to break the rules. Do you know of any other TCG's that have even half the number of rulings that Yu-Gi-Oh! has?

Read the ruling on Needle Worm vs Magical Thorn: http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=2687#2687. Discard here does NOT infer the cards were briefly in the opponent's Hand. I agree it would be best to errata the card and write "Send" instead of "Discard", but again it's Yu-Gi-Oh!

Lastly, we all need to remember we're dealing with text that has been translated from Japanese.

doc
 
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for some reason i thought it was always opposite......

like cost is an immediate thing adn must be paid so the effect will go through.....

whereas its an effect it must follow whatever happens and if doesnt it "fizzles"

go figure
 
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