convulsion of nature+archfiends oath

G

ghost23

New Member
hi there
just wanted to check this out with you guys first k here goes:

say convulsion of nature and archfiends oath are both active on field and the next card to be drawn is archfiend of gilfer, can i do the following:

declare any card name even though gilfer is next(which obviously i know) so i can send gilfer to the GY to activate its effect(which should be the last thing to happen correct?)

am i right in that i can do this?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
slither said:
Backing up novastar here:

No you cannot, if you have no cards left you can't either play a card or send it to the grave, therefore there is no effect to fullfill with Archfiend's Oath.
Click to expand...
This is debate worthy, especially since it isnt a Mandatory Effect...

The effect of Archfiend's Oath says "once per turn you can", so I would say that as long as the effect can be resolved at a separate time during the turn, and not immediately after payment has been made and the effect resolves, then you have the whole turn to get a card back to your deck.

Maybe you have Outstanding Dog Marron on the field, and Zaborg the Thunder Monarch in hand. You Tribute Summon Zaborg, and Marron goes back to Deck, then you use the effect of Oath.

It should stand to reason with effects like Last Will and Soul Exchange, you can still activate an effect that may or may not resolve during that turn, that it may be possible.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Kyhotae said:
Pardon me for not understanding the reason for your question. I'd be happy to answer it if there was a reason for asking it. If you didn't want to explain it, then you shouldn't have asked it.
Click to expand...
The reason was to get an answer on a card ruling. Do you go up to players during a tournament and refuse to give a card ruling because you think they've already lost that game? The question was "can I do X under condition Y", that's all the explanation needed.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
masterwoo0 said:
This is debate worthy, especially since it isnt a Mandatory Effect...

The effect of Archfiend's Oath says "once per turn you can", so I would say that as long as the effect can be resolved at a separate time during the turn, and not immediately after payment has been made and the effect resolves, then you have the whole turn to get a card back to your deck.

Maybe you have Outstanding Dog Marron on the field, and Zaborg the Thunder Monarch in hand. You Tribute Summon Zaborg, and Marron goes back to Deck, then you use the effect of Oath.

It should stand to reason with effects like Last Will and Soul Exchange, you can still activate an effect that may or may not resolve during that turn, that it may be possible.
Click to expand...
Well, I could definitely play Archfiend's Oath to the field at any time, since it's a continuous spell with no timing issues. However, when you pay the 500 LP to activate the effect, it puts the entire "name a card, look at the top card of your deck" part of the effect on the chain. The second part, about whether to put it in your hand or send it to the graveyard, is then dependent on the result of the first part.

My example when this first came up was Mind Crush/D D Designator. You declare one card name, then the second part of the effect depends on the result of that. If you don't have any cards in your hand, you can't play D D Designator or Mind Crush, because you can't pay the "forfeit" for lack of a better term. Unfortunately, this came up when i was playing, so i wasn't able to make a definitive ruling, and the judge there made a different call.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
masterwoo0 said:
This is debate worthy, especially since it isnt a Mandatory Effect...

The effect of Archfiend's Oath says "once per turn you can", so I would say that as long as the effect can be resolved at a separate time during the turn, and not immediately after payment has been made and the effect resolves, then you have the whole turn to get a card back to your deck.

Maybe you have Outstanding Dog Marron on the field, and Zaborg the Thunder Monarch in hand. You Tribute Summon Zaborg, and Marron goes back to Deck, then you use the effect of Oath.

It should stand to reason with effects like Last Will and Soul Exchange, you can still activate an effect that may or may not resolve during that turn, that it may be possible.
Click to expand...
It's activated and resolved similar to Call of the Mummy.

"If there is no monster on your side of the field, you can Special Summon 1 Zombie-Type monster from your hand. You can only use this effect once per turn."

The "you can" in the text is to indicate that it is manually activated by you. It's performed similar to a straight up Ignition Effect, and resolved entirely during the initial chain link.

While it's debatable whether the game and effects keep a running count of cards in the Deck throughout the game (which I don't think they do), they are definately aware of when you have 0 cards in terms of activation requirements.

I would think that you couldn't activate this effect if you had 0 cards on your Deck prior to activation.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
But, just like Call of the Mummy, I dont have to ever summon a Monster, just because it is active, or, if I choose to do so, I can do it in either Main Phase 1 or 2 the turn it is activated.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
masterwoo0 said:
But, just like Call of the Mummy, I dont have to ever summon a Monster, just because it is active, or, if I choose to do so, I can do it in either Main Phase 1 or 2 the turn it is activated.
Click to expand...
Where did you get that from?

If the condition is right you activate and summon, otherwise you don't activate, just like any other one-shot Ignition type effect.

It is not a "state" based effect at all. It is more akin to Ultimate Offering.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
novastar said:
Where did you get that from?

If the condition is right you activate and summon, otherwise you don't activate, just like any other one-shot Ignition type effect.

It is not a "state" based effect at all. It is more akin to Ultimate Offering.
Click to expand...
Call of the Mummy is a Continuous Spell Card. There is no activation requirement for playing it to the field. I dont have to summon a monster just because it is on the field. It isnt Mandatory that I do. if I choose to summon a Zombie because there is no Monster on my side of the field, then I can, which means, if I activate it while I have a monster on the field, I cant summon a Zombie, but that doesnt mean I cant activate the card.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
masterwoo0 said:
Call of the Mummy is a Continuous Spell Card. There is no activation requirement for playing it to the field. I dont have to summon a monster just because it is on the field. It isnt Mandatory that I do. if I choose to summon a Zombie because there is no Monster on my side of the field, then I can, which means, if I activate it while I have a monster on the field, I cant summon a Zombie, but that doesnt mean I cant activate the card.
Click to expand...
He is talking about the effect activation not card activation.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
babyarm said:
The reason was to get an answer on a card ruling. Do you go up to players during a tournament and refuse to give a card ruling because you think they've already lost that game? The question was "can I do X under condition Y", that's all the explanation needed.
Click to expand...
If someone asked me if they could activate an effect when they're going to lose in the next instant, I would ask him why he's asking, since he's going to lose once he tries to draw and can't. I would definitely ask what the situation is. Like I said, if you don't want to explain it, don't ask it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
babyarm said:
If you went to a table to make a ruling, that situation came up, and you said something like that to the player, you'd never judge one of my events again.
Click to expand...
Really? You wouldn't ask the situation before you ruled? If that's the case, I wouldn't want to play or judge at any of "your" events.

I know how to handle players. The way I ask on a forum is different from the way I'd ask in person. Besides, since you've been nothing but rude to me, I'm not exactly trying spare your feelings, either.

Now you can explain the situation so everyone can understand, or you can stay on your high horse and feel that everyone should know what you're talking about just because you said it. Either way, I'm not the one in the wrong here.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
This isn't a complicated question Kyhotae. He was asking a straight foward "can this be activated under these conditions". Needing to know whether or not he would lose the game in the next instant doesn't enter into the discussion. You sound way too much like UDE and the "don't come to us with made up questions we only want to give rulings on real-world tournament issues". If you don't know the answer you can choose to remain silent and not participate in the given discussion. Or you can ask a question about an example and one would be provided to you about how this works but you don't have authority to come barging in and tell other people what is appropriate to post or not. You had ample opportunity in this thread to make your snarky comment and let others answer the question. Only you persisted in making it an issue that you hadn't answered the question and yet felt justified in continuing to post comments that neither moved the discussion along nor added in any way other than to start a disagreement. It would be very appreciated if you could let this one go before it further degrades to what will inevitably become a locked thread.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I didn't look up the effect, and I thought that it was an effect that you activate before you Draw during your Draw Phase that lets you pick top card before you draw and add it to your hand if you guess it right, then you get to draw. My comment was legitimate. I did not post it in an offensive manner (perhaps mildly sarcastic... maybe), however (surprise, surprise), I was treated rudely. I'm pretty sick of being treated like garbage for no reason.

If someone explained that this effect is not activated in the Draw Phase, I would have been able to explain that under NO circumstances can you activate an effect if the game knows that it will do nothing. The game knows when you're out of cards. Therefore, it is impossible to activate the effect of "Archfiend's Oath" if you drew your last card this turn.

But that's OK, keep treating me like garbage if it makes you feel better. It's not my fault the discussion wasn't advanced by my posts. If someone addressed what I was commenting about, I would have been able to address the situation instead of defending myself from arrogant attacks (again).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hmm, well, there are two things to consider...

Archfiend's Oath
Continuous Spell

Once per turn you can pay 500 Life Points to declare 1 card name. Pick up the top card from your Deck and if the card name is the one you declared, add it to your hand. If not, send the card you picked up to the Graveyard.

First, You can't deck out with Archfiend's Oath. The text reads "Pick Up" and now "Draw" a card. We've learned from Cyber Jar that if you only have 3 cards left in your deck after a flip, you just pick up those 3. Similarly since monsters are destroyed as part of the Cyber Jar process, you can flip summon Cyber Jar when you have no cards in your or your opponent's graveyard.

However, more importantly is the "you can't activate cards that have no effect" mechanic of the game. You can't play Brain Control if there is no monster to take control of on the field, even if you're going to chain Ojama Trio to Brain Control, you can't do the initial activation. This is also why you can't manually flip Morphing Jar when Protector of the Sanctuary is on the field.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dillie-O said:
This is also why you can't manually flip Morphing Jar when Protector of the Sanctuary is on the field.
Click to expand...
Umm..sorry Dillie-O, but you CAN Flip Summon "Morphing Jar" while "Protector of the Sanctuary" is on the field.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Okay, guys. I'm looking back at these last few posts and I can't even find what sparked this confrontation. I don't see any reason for any of the hostility I've picked up on here. It was unnecessary and not befitting of the high standards we've set for our forum. I'm sensing a little too much of that lately. I suggest if we want to be the helpful community that we claim to be, we focus more on the helping aspect and less on our personal pet peeves and idiosyncrasies.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
skey23 said:
Umm..sorry Dillie-O, but you CAN Flip Summon "Morphing Jar" while "Protector of the Sanctuary" is on the field.
Click to expand...

Really?! For some reason I thought the "forcibly activated" part of the rulings indicated that you couldn't manually flip summon the card, but if you attacked it its effect went through... Well you learn something new every day!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dillie-O said:
Really?! For some reason I thought the "forcibly activated" part of the rulings indicated that you couldn't manually flip summon the card, but if you attacked it its effect went through... Well you learn something new every day!
Click to expand...

A FLIP effect is a mandatory trigger effect ;)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top