"Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude" vs. "The End of Anubis"

K

Kyhotae

Delusional Knight
I have gotten into this wonderful discussion with Simon on another forum and I thought I would bring the fun here.

The question is whether "The End of Anubis" would negate the effect of the Normal Spell Card sent to the Graveyard by "Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude".

After reading through the rulings and noticing that they were very specific about saying that the effect activates and not the Spell Card, it was asserted that "The End of Anubis" had no power over it because it only negates effects of Spell Cards that activate in the Graveyard. Since there's not Spell Card being activated by "Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude"s effect, then "The End of Anubis" can't negate it.

The other assertion was simply that it's a Spell Card effect and it's activating in the Graveyard, so "The End of Anubis" will negate it.

So, there you have it. Let us know how you feel. :D
 
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Just way too much overanalyzation going on here...even for me...

I haven't been dying for a ruling this much since the [Exiled Force] fiasco... just so that the madness will end.
 
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Apparently the theory is that because the Spell Card itself isn't being activated (only the effect is by Diamond Dude), that it didn't somehow originate from a Spell Card and is now a nameless, faceless, tasteless.... rebel effect without a cause.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
I came in late. Been busy. What the heck is a "cardless effect"?
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It's the effect that "Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude"s effect activates after it sends a Normal Spell Card to the Graveyard with his effect. All the rulings specifically say that the effect is being activated and not the card. The effect is separate from the card. It's a cardless effect.
 
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Kyhotae said:
Like I said. It's a cardless effect.
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It's not a cardless effect. It originates from a Spell Card. For it to be cardless, it would have to "imitate" a Spell Cards effect, which it doesnt, and even if it did, it still has its origin based on Diamond Dude's effect, so it still wouldnt be cardless.

So simply put, you cant "simulate" the effect of, say, "Pot of Greed", without actually having drawn Pot of Greed and sending it to the Graveyard by Diamond Dude's effect.

If Diamond Dude's effect stated that you could show your opponent a Normal Spell Card from your hand, and activate that Spell Card's effect (without actually playing it), it still uses a card to draw the effect.

Nothing about this game is cardless except Tokens.
 
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I think it's just as simple as, "the card's not being played on the field, so it's not activating". It doesn't move from the Graveyard. That's all.


The rulings concerning Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 and Barrel Behind the Door are conflicting with each other. The Horus ruling implies it's a regular Spell Card effect (the immunity), but the Barrel ruling implies it's not (the "can't activate Barrel against it"). Which is correct?
 
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The rulings are quite clear. The Spell Card is merely reference. Of course the effect "originates" from the Spell Card, but the Spell Card is still not activating in the Graveyard, so "The End of Anubis" has nothing to negate because it only negates effects of Spell Cards that activate in the Graveyard.
 
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Maruno said:
I think it's just as simple as, "the card's not being played on the field, so it's not activating". It doesn't move from the Graveyard. That's all.


The rulings concerning Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6 and Barrel Behind the Door are conflicting with each other. The Horus ruling implies it's a regular Spell Card effect (the immunity), but the Barrel ruling implies it's not (the "can't activate Barrel against it"). Which is correct?
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Barrel Behind the Door must chain to a Card's Activation, not the resulting effect. Once the effect "resolves", Barrel reflects it. What are you chaining Barrel to, in order for its effect to activate?

Horus LV6 is "unaffected" by Spell Card's "Effects", so it doesnt need to see, feel, or touch a Spell Card. The effect is all that is required in order for it to state it cannot be affected by it.
 
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Barrel Behind the Door's very wording says nothing about the activation of a card. Only the activation of the effect matters. And clearly the DH-DD Spell Card effect still activates, and can be chained to. Surely it's reasonable to assume Barrel can be activated in respose to a DH-DD'd Final Flame?
 
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Kyhotae said:
The rulings are quite clear. The Spell Card is merely reference. Of course the effect "originates" from the Spell Card, but the Spell Card is still not activating in the Graveyard, so "The End of Anubis" has nothing to negate because it only negates effects of Spell Cards that activate in the Graveyard.
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You keep going back to The End of Anubis only being able to negate a Spell Card that activates. It doesnt say anything about negating the effect of a card that activates. He negates EFFECTS, not ACTIVATION'S. His effect is Continuous. You cant even ACTIVATE an effect if it has to be played Manually.
 
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I keep going back to it because it keeps being ignored. It negates effects of Spell Cards that activate, just like it says in his effect. No Spell Card is activating with "Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude"s effect.
 
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Kyhotae said:
I keep going back to it because it keeps being ignored. It negates effects of Spell Cards that activate, just like it says in his effect. No Spell Card is activating with "Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude"s effect.
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None needs to activate. The End of Anubis is negating Effects. Does Sangan "activate" when he is sent to the Graveyard, or his effect?
 
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Kyhotae said:
He's a monster card that activates in the Graveyard.
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So, the difference is??? Its an effect that activates in the Graveyard. The End of Anubis negates effects that activate in the Graveyard; Monsters, Spells, and Traps.

Sangan is a Monster Card who's "effect" activates in the Graveyard.
 
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The difference is, there's no card that's activating and generating an effect with "Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude"s effect. It's only the effect. "The End of Anubis" doesn't negate effects. It negate effects of cards that activate in the Graveyard. Again, no card is activating in the Graveyard to generate an effect.
 
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The difference is, there's no card that's activating and generating an effect with "Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude"s effect. It's only the effect. "The End of Anubis" doesn't negate effects. It negate effects of cards that activate in the Graveyard. Again, no card is activating in the Graveyard to generate an effect.
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While this card is face-up on the field, all effects of Spell, Trap, and Monster Cards that target a card(s) in the Graveyard or that activate in the Graveyard are negated.

While this card is face-up on your side of the field, once per turn you can look at the top card of your Deck. If the card is a Normal Spell Card, send it to the Graveyard and you can activate the Normal Spell Card during the Main Phase of your next turn. If the card is not a Normal Spell Card, place it on the bottom of your Deck.​


I don't see what you mean. Where, in Diamond Dude's rulings, is it stated that the effect didn't come from a card? It says it activates the effect of the card, and not the card itself. But the effect is still originating from fram a card effect, either the Dude or the Spell Card. I'm afraid the "cardless" theory isn't supported by anything here. No effect can truly be cardless, unless the effect is a game-based effect. And Yu-Gi-Oh! is one game that doesn't have these.

The problem here is that there's never been an effect that, while in the Graveyard, activates through a proxy before. With the exception of the use of Double Spell, and Double Spell apears to have to have a completely contradictory ruling to the Dude. I think the core of the matter here is who is activatting the effect in this case. Becuase it has to be the Dude or the Spell Card. It can't be neither one. As confounding as Yu-Gi-Oh! can be, there's always been "cause" to any "effect". "Cardless effect" is akin to saying "causeless effect", and we can all agree that cannot be the case.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
There is no Psuedo Effect. It is the effect of a Spell Card, plain and simple, which is why Horus LV6 is still unaffected by it.

If it was a Psuedo Spell Cards Effect, then that would mean that it was a new category of Spell Effect,

Field Spell Card
Quick-Play Spell Card
Continuous Spell Card
Ritual Spell Card
Equip Spell Card

**NEW**
"Psuedo Spell Card"

and that would mean that it would be beyond even Horus LV6's effect, because there is nothing in the game to compare it too, other than "Tokens" which are "Psuedo Monsters", because there does not exist actual Token Monster Cards.
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Ruling (paraphrased)
If the Spell card that was sent to the graveyard IS NOT in the graveyard the next turn when DH-DD attempts to activate it's effect, then DH-DD cannot activate the effect of the Spell card. (not activating the Spell card, just the effect. No arguement there.)
DH-DD has to "target" the Spell card in order to know what effect to activate the next turn. If the card is not there, then no effect!
End of Anubis negates effects of Monster cards that target cards in the graveyard.
As such, the effect of End of Anubis will negate DH-DD's effect.

PS. You forgot Normal Spell Card
 
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masterwoo0 said:
I didnt forget it. You can only use the effect of Diamond Dude ON Normal Spell Cards, so the rest of them were just there to be "filler".
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My bad but you were describing "Pseudo Spell" cards as a NEW class of Spell cards and listed the other types of Spell cards, not discussing the types the DH-DD could use. Guess I misunderstood.

Bottom line____(get it?) We both believe that End of Anubis negates DH-DD's effect.
 
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